Improving invasion mechanics

[christian]

this is my idea on how invasion mechanics could be improved

first the research tree

there are 16 research levels in invasion capability

1 : unlocks small LC
2 : unlocks ability for LC to carry light guns up to 2 inches in size
3 : enclosed holds unlocked
4 : improved barges increases invasion value per unit capacity
5 : unlocks light armored vehicles
6 : unlocks long range for LC 
7 : unlocks large LC
8 : improved stability
9 : ability to mount limited amount of up to 3 inch guns on large LC and aa guns
10 : medium armored vehicles (upgrade over light vehicles improves invasion value with tanks on more than light tanks would)
11 : allows for extreme range for lc
11 : unloading ramps for lc
12 : allows for up to 6 3-5 inch guns on large lc and light and medium aa guns on light lc
13 : allows for anti air firecontrol to be installed on both light and heavy lc
14 : improved barges increases invasion value per capacity even more
15 : increases maximum unit capacity for large lc
16 : allows large lc of 6000-8000 tons

ships of 2000 tons or more have almost no chance of capsizing in bad weather with closed holds or improved stability so these 2 features are mostly for small lc

although improved stability and closed hulls do offer survivability against light bomb misses strafing from planes and flooding 
improved stability increases the flooding required to sink a lc
closed holds decreases damage the ship takes from near misses from light bombs

research area would be unlocked around 1910 to 1915

(not the prettiest drawing i know)

once a war has been started lc ships can be moved from sea zones as long as you have a port in a sea zone and invasion ships are in that sea zone each port in said sea zone will get an invasion circle of the landing craft with the least range (same range for all ships in a seazone is very much desired as low range ships will limit long range craft range significantly)

once an invasion on an area has been selected the invasion planning will take x months (1-5 months) depending on the base size of the area you are invading (regardless of enemy fleet)

once the invasion has set out on its trip (after 1-5 months of planning) it will take around 1-2 months to arrive if you have no fleet present in said area you are invading (sea zone) the invasion will proceed unsupported and the invasion ships will have to defend themselves (an invasion battle will be started which you are forced to accept if not enough invasion value reaches the shore (too many ships are sunk) you loose the invasion battle and the possesion repelled the invasion

this means if you have 5 large landing craft with a combined value of 125 invasion value but all but 1 are sunk in the approach to the beach during the invasion battle but you need to reach the beach/landing location with atleast 50 invasion value you have lost the battle but if 2 ships survived you have succesfully invaded and a battle will commence over the area (likely with ground support missions to increase chance of defeating enemy forces completely as is currently in game)

X amount of invasion value is required to invade areas so if your landing craft fleet only has lets say 45 invasion value in that sea zone and and you want to invade an enemy possesion from said sea zone with 45 invasion value but 70 invasion value is required to take the area you are planning on invading the invasion CANNOT PROCEED

larger areas require more invasion value

AMCS can be converted to landing craft once a war is over


this was mostly thought up to completely elliminate rng from the invasion factor and force size and invasion fleet size is alot more of a factor 


(nm range would be a combination of the range setting and fleet tonnage maximum range can only be reached with cruise speed this means on approach to a beach you can run out of fuel if its just on the limit of your range and you are going significantly faster with the fleet than cruise speed)

Attachments:

[dorn]

christian

Frankly speaking it seems to me too much detail and micromanagent.

What invasions needs is feedback.
You start preparation of invasion and spending large money if it is feasable. After that you just start invasion in time that suits you.
If situation changes that you cannot proceed with invasion you know why so you can remedy the issue or cancel all preparation as unfeasable.

All time you are quite aware of situation (you can be wrong with your guess but as time progress with preparations you should be more aware of situation)

In RTW2 you are spending money with no feedback, no possibility tu push the buttom.

As soon as RTW2 provide feedback and possibility of decision, system itself should be as much easy and abstracted as possible.


This is a reason that I think that invasion preparation time should depend on:
- distance
- support (base capacity from)
- target (military/economical power of possession)

So player can easily evaluate chance themselves.

With event during preparation either everything is going smoothly or Getting information that our estimates was wrong and we can choose continue (more time or money needed) or cancel invasion.

[christian]

Jun 16, 2019 8:00:31 GMT -6 dorn said:

christian

Frankly speaking it seems to me too much detail and micromanagent.

What invasions needs is feedback.
You start preparation of invasion and spending large money if it is feasable. After that you just start invasion in time that suits you.
If situation changes that you cannot proceed with invasion you know why so you can remedy the issue or cancel all preparation as unfeasable.

All time you are quite aware of situation (you can be wrong with your guess but as time progress with preparations you should be more aware of situation)

In RTW2 you are spending money with no feedback, no possibility tu push the buttom.

As soon as RTW2 provide feedback and possibility of decision, system itself should be as much easy and abstracted as possible.


This is a reason that I think that invasion preparation time should depend on:
- distance
- support (base capacity from)
- target (military/economical power of possession)

So player can easily evaluate chance themselves.

With event during preparation either everything is going smoothly or Getting information that our estimates was wrong and we can choose continue (more time or money needed) or cancel invasion.

at most it adds the need for you to make ships and move them around a bit and it can be made so a few are needed to invade areas thus not being very costly either

it would also allow you yourself to determine the invasion range currently there are alot of place which cannot be reached which is quite annoying 
this would allow you to build very long range landing craft which could invade at long distances (currently max is 800 nm) while in real life ships had upwards of 20k range (although 20k nautical mile range is a bit stupid so limiting it makes sense)

the main problems i have with invasion now is range and the total randomness of invasions
i think this solves both and also gives the player more control

are you in the Mediterranean you can get more invasion value on your ship because you dont need as much range opposite is the case in the pacific 

also i think micromanagement is welcome in this game being able to precisely decide what you want to do is very nice as can be seen with planes and ships and your decisions 

[rob06waves2018]

This may be the best solution I've seen so far. (it may even pacify Dizzy!)

I see a lot of reasons that landing craft shouldn't be generically abstracted. I actually would prefer these over corvettes.

One thing I would say is that they should be designed and displayed in a different tab, somewhere between the current submarine mechanics and the aircraft mechanics. The player should design LCs to a template (500t, 1000t, 2000t, 4000t, 6000t and 8000t) and edit them as a normal ship in the designer. Then, as the technology level increases, new designs are made and the old ones are obsoleted by the player, like with aircraft.

One could argue for a more basic system similar to submarines but you won't catch me arguing for it! I'd like more submarine design options as well.

[JagdFlanker]

a simple way of keeping the invasion mechanic like it is now is having a set price to "purchase" the invasion convoy which might be spread out over 3-4 months, instead of the current "keep paying full price until the invasion happens"

bigger invasions will cost more the same way they do now

once you'v paid the cost for the invasion and waited the 3-4 months, you can launch it - but the enemy gets to defend with their entire fleet that's present in the seazone so you have to be careful when you do it

if you choose to delay the invasion you have to pay a monthly fee of 10% (or whatever) the full monthly invasion purchase cost to maintain the invasion forces at readiness

choosing the time when you invade will reduce the frustration of having to wait for it to happen randomly, but if the enemy has a huge fleet in the seazone and your invasion doesn't succeed you'l have to start the whole process again from scratch

[christian]

Jun 16, 2019 10:01:43 GMT -6 rob06waves2018 said:

This may be the best solution I've seen so far. (it may even pacify Dizzy!)

I see a lot of reasons that landing craft shouldn't be generically abstracted. I actually would prefer these over corvettes.

One thing I would say is that they should be designed and displayed in a different tab, somewhere between the current submarine mechanics and the aircraft mechanics. The player should design LCs to a template (500t, 1000t, 2000t, 4000t, 6000t and 8000t) and edit them as a normal ship in the designer. Then, as the technology level increases, new designs are made and the old ones are obsoleted by the player, like with aircraft.

One could argue for a more basic system similar to submarines but you won't catch me arguing for it! I'd like more submarine design options as well.

yeah it could probably be simplified alot like aircraft although i personally do like having more control over what i am actually doing (instead of leaving the specs up to being randomly generated)