Post by generalvikus on Jun 17, 2019 1:46:32 GMT -6
Here are the combat logs for the three most heavily damaged enemy vessels in my most recent fleet exercise:
Enemy BB OREGON
17 Heavy Hits Received
LOG
24 17:33 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Baltimore
24 17:40 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Tucker
24 17:43 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Arizona
24 17:48 14 in 14131 yds Turret Y hit TT Turret disabled (BB Ranger, AP)
24 17:50 14 in 13998 yds Hull hit B (BB Arizona, AP)
24 17:52 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Yorktown
24 17:52 14 in 13077 yds Engine room hit D (BB Ranger, AP)
24 18:06 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Ericsson
24 18:06 Turret Y back in action!
24 18:20 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Olympia
24 18:26 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Michigan
24 18:37 14 in 13900 yds Hull hit BE * Shell burst limited by coal bunker (BB Michigan, AP)
24 18:40 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD McDougal
24 18:47 5 in 11376 yds Hull hit B (CL Baltimore, HE)
24 18:48 5 in 13122 yds (BB Arizona, HE)
24 18:53 5 in 13486 yds Hull hit. Shell burst limited by coal bunker (BB Arizona, HE)
24 18:53 14 in 12650 yds Superstructure passthrough hit * SEC* Secondary guns knocked out by splinters (BB Yorktown, AP)
24 18:59 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Ranger
24 18:59 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Olympia
24 19:03 14 in 13877 yds Fore/aft hull hit * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:03 14 in 13877 yds Engine room hit B (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:05 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Baltimore
24 19:15 14 in 11631 yds Hull hit D (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:15 4 in 9343 yds Near miss! (BB Ranger, HE)
24 19:17 14 in 11122 yds Superstructure hit. Shell burst limited by coal bunker (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:18 14 in 8280 yds Near miss! (BB Ranger, AP)
24 19:18 14 in 8280 yds Hull passthrough hit * (BB Ranger, AP)
24 19:19 5 in 11562 yds Hull hit (CL Raleigh, HE)
24 19:22 Main battery scores 2 hits on BB Yorktown
24 19:22 14 in 11190 yds Turret Y hit T * Turret destroyed (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:22 14 in 11190 yds Secondary battery hit * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:24 5 in 10661 yds Hull hit (CL Raleigh, HE)
24 19:30 14 in 10600 yds Turret A hit T * Turret disabled (BB Arizona, AP)
24 19:41 14 in 10223 yds Hull hit BE * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:41 Limits flooding!
24 19:42 14 in 10230 yds Hull hit BE * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:42 Limits flooding!
24 19:43 14 in 10240 yds Turret B hit T * Turret destroyed (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:44 Turret A back in action!
24 19:48 14 in 10560 yds Critical hit *! Salt water enters feed tanks. Machinery disabled! (BB Michigan, AP)
24 20:06 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD McDougal
24 20:15 Cannot keep up and has been detached
24 20:27 Machinery repaired!
ENEMY BB MINNESOTA
14 Heavy Hits received
LOG
24 17:23 14 in 15367 yds Fore/aft hull hit * (BB Arizona, AP)
24 17:23 14 in 15367 yds Turret B hit T * Turret disabled (BB Arizona, AP)
24 17:26 14 in 13943 yds Hull hit B (BB Ranger, AP)
24 17:28 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Olympia
24 17:30 14 in 14087 yds Critical hit *! Conning tower hit! (BB Ranger, AP)
24 17:33 Falls out of line!
24 17:40 Turret A jammed!
24 17:52 Turret A back in action!
24 17:53 5 in 12424 yds Turret A hit TT (CL Chicago, HE)
24 18:40 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD McDougal
24 18:55 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Olympia
24 19:04 Turret B back in action!
24 19:20 14 in 9461 yds Submerged torpedo flat hit * (BB Ranger, AP)
24 19:20 4 in 10219 yds Hull hit BE (BB Yorktown, HE)
24 19:22 5 in 12244 yds Secondary battery hit * (BB Arizona, HE)
24 19:23 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Olympia
24 19:38 14 in 10728 yds Hull hit (BB Arizona, AP)
24 19:41 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD McDougal
24 19:43 5 in 10518 yds Secondary battery hit * (BB Arizona, HE)
24 19:45 14 in 10469 yds Hull hit BE * (BB Arizona, AP)
24 19:46 14 in 10550 yds Hull hit B (BB Arizona, AP)
24 19:49 14 in 10924 yds Superstructure passthrough hit * (BB Arizona, AP)
24 20:04 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Tucker
24 20:07 14 in 13247 yds Superstructure hit BE * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 20:08 5 in 12921 yds Lower belt edge hit (BB Arizona, HE)
24 20:09 5 in 12940 yds Near miss! (BB Arizona, HE)
24 20:17 14 in 16630 yds Submerged torpedo flat hit * (BB Yorktown, AP)
24 20:19 14 in 14121 yds Hull hit (BB Arizona, AP)
24 20:31 14 in 15320 yds Engine room hit B (BB Michigan, AP)
24 20:52 5 in 12897 yds Superstructure hit BE (BB Michigan, HE)
24 20:54 5 in 12325 yds Superstructure hit DE Fire started (BB Michigan, HE)
24 20:58 Fire spreads
24 21:12 Fire reduced by damage control
24 21:16 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Michigan
24 21:22 5 in 11427 yds Fore/aft hull hit * (CL Raleigh, HE)
24 21:23 5 in 12000 yds Superstructure hit DE * (CL Raleigh, HE)
24 21:28 Fire extinguished
24 21:47 14 in 15092 yds Hull hit (BB Michigan, AP)
25 05:19 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Raleigh
25 05:23 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Raleigh
ENEMY BB NORTH CAROLINA
10 Heavy Hits received
LOG
24 17:19 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Yorktown
24 17:30 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Ericsson
24 17:44 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Tucker
24 17:49 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Michigan
24 17:50 14 in 13526 yds Secondary battery hit * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 17:50 14 in 13526 yds Hull passthrough hit * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 17:52 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Michigan
24 17:55 4 in 11534 yds Turret A hit T (BB Ranger, HE)
24 17:56 Secondary battery scores 2 hits on BB Ranger
24 17:56 14 in 11323 yds Superstructure hit * SEC* Secondary guns knocked out by splinters (BB Yorktown, AP)
24 18:10 5 in 13312 yds Secondary battery hit * (CL Chicago, HE)
24 18:18 14 in 10647 yds Hull hit B * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 18:19 5 in 11860 yds Turret Y hit T (CL Chicago, HE)
24 18:19 5 in 11860 yds Hull hit BE (CL Chicago, HE)
24 18:19 Limits flooding!
24 18:20 High speed increases flooding!
24 18:20 Detaches because of heavy flooding.
24 18:23 Limits flooding!
24 18:26 Limits flooding!
24 18:29 Limits flooding!
24 18:32 Turret A jammed!
24 18:33 Limits flooding!
24 18:37 Limits flooding!
24 18:38 Limits flooding!
24 18:57 Turret A back in action!
24 19:34 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Olympia
24 19:49 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD McDougal
24 19:50 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD McDougal
24 20:00 14 in 19858 yds Superstructure hit BE * (BB Ranger, AP)
24 20:26 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Arizona
24 20:29 14 in 16498 yds Superstructure hit * Fire started SEC* Secondary guns knocked out by splinters (BB Arizona, AP)
24 20:29 14 in 16825 yds Superstructure hit BE * (BB Ranger, AP)
24 20:29 Fire extinguished
24 20:36 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Ranger
24 20:48 14 in 15092 yds Fore/aft hull hit * (BB Arizona, AP)
24 20:50 14 in 14469 yds Superstructure hit * SEC* Secondary guns knocked out by splinters (BB Arizona, AP)
24 21:15 14 in 14555 yds Hull hit DE * (BB Arizona, AP)
25 05:16 Limits flooding!
All three ships were of the following class:
And all heavy hits scored against them were scored using one of two guns:
Isolating the 14 inch hull hits, including B, D, critical, and just plain 'hull' hits, but excluding BE, Fore/Aft Hull, Superstructure, CT, Turret, Secondary Battery, and hull pass through hits produces the following list:
OREGON
24 17:50 14 in 13998 yds Hull hit B (BB Arizona, AP) [Theoretical Pen: 14.25 in]
24 17:52 14 in 13077 yds Engine room hit D (BB Ranger, AP)
24 19:03 14 in 13877 yds Engine room hit B (BB Michigan, AP)
[Theoretical Pen: 14.25 in]
24 19:15 14 in 11631 yds Hull hit D (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:48 14 in 10560 yds Critical hit *! Salt water enters feed tanks. Machinery disabled! (BB Michigan, AP)
MINNESOTA
24 17:26 14 in 13943 yds Hull hit B (BB Ranger, AP)
[Theoretical Pen: 13.2 in]
24 19:38 14 in 10728 yds Hull hit (BB Arizona, AP)
[Theoretical Pen: 16.54 in B, 1.23 in D]
24 19:46 14 in 10550 yds Hull hit B (BB Arizona, AP)
[Theoretical Pen: 16.54]
24 20:19 14 in 14121 yds Hull hit (BB Arizona, AP)
[Theoretical Pen: 14.25 B, 1.93 in D]
24 20:31 14 in 15320 yds Engine room hit B (BB Michigan, AP)
[Theoretical Pen: 13.72]
24 21:47 14 in 15092 yds Hull hit (BB Michigan, AP)
[Theoretical Pen: 13.72]
NORTH CAROLINA
24 18:18 14 in 10647 yds Hull hit B * (BB Michigan, AP)
Note that I used the penetration values from the gun tables which consider my current armor technology, so in reality the theoretical penetration against these old ships should be higher.
Only two out twelve hits - the critical hit on Oregon at 10,560 yards and the belt (B) hit on North Carolina at 10,647 yards - were able to penetrate, whereas, according to the data, 7 ought to have. I wonder if this might be due to armor angling; for most of the battle, my ships were attempting to zig - zag ahead of the enemy, and therefore the shells ought to have been penetrating at an oblique angle, increasing effective thickness.
If this theory is correct, then firing at an enemy who is ahead of or behind you seems to be a much less effective tactic than it would seem on paper: good penetration results would demand that the firing ship be roughly parallel to and alongside the target.
So, my questions are: can anyone either confirm or deny this hypothesis? Is it consistent with your experience, or do you have an alternative explanation for these results?
Enemy BB OREGON
17 Heavy Hits Received
LOG
24 17:33 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Baltimore
24 17:40 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Tucker
24 17:43 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Arizona
24 17:48 14 in 14131 yds Turret Y hit TT Turret disabled (BB Ranger, AP)
24 17:50 14 in 13998 yds Hull hit B (BB Arizona, AP)
24 17:52 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Yorktown
24 17:52 14 in 13077 yds Engine room hit D (BB Ranger, AP)
24 18:06 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Ericsson
24 18:06 Turret Y back in action!
24 18:20 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Olympia
24 18:26 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Michigan
24 18:37 14 in 13900 yds Hull hit BE * Shell burst limited by coal bunker (BB Michigan, AP)
24 18:40 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD McDougal
24 18:47 5 in 11376 yds Hull hit B (CL Baltimore, HE)
24 18:48 5 in 13122 yds (BB Arizona, HE)
24 18:53 5 in 13486 yds Hull hit. Shell burst limited by coal bunker (BB Arizona, HE)
24 18:53 14 in 12650 yds Superstructure passthrough hit * SEC* Secondary guns knocked out by splinters (BB Yorktown, AP)
24 18:59 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Ranger
24 18:59 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Olympia
24 19:03 14 in 13877 yds Fore/aft hull hit * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:03 14 in 13877 yds Engine room hit B (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:05 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Baltimore
24 19:15 14 in 11631 yds Hull hit D (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:15 4 in 9343 yds Near miss! (BB Ranger, HE)
24 19:17 14 in 11122 yds Superstructure hit. Shell burst limited by coal bunker (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:18 14 in 8280 yds Near miss! (BB Ranger, AP)
24 19:18 14 in 8280 yds Hull passthrough hit * (BB Ranger, AP)
24 19:19 5 in 11562 yds Hull hit (CL Raleigh, HE)
24 19:22 Main battery scores 2 hits on BB Yorktown
24 19:22 14 in 11190 yds Turret Y hit T * Turret destroyed (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:22 14 in 11190 yds Secondary battery hit * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:24 5 in 10661 yds Hull hit (CL Raleigh, HE)
24 19:30 14 in 10600 yds Turret A hit T * Turret disabled (BB Arizona, AP)
24 19:41 14 in 10223 yds Hull hit BE * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:41 Limits flooding!
24 19:42 14 in 10230 yds Hull hit BE * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:42 Limits flooding!
24 19:43 14 in 10240 yds Turret B hit T * Turret destroyed (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:44 Turret A back in action!
24 19:48 14 in 10560 yds Critical hit *! Salt water enters feed tanks. Machinery disabled! (BB Michigan, AP)
24 20:06 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD McDougal
24 20:15 Cannot keep up and has been detached
24 20:27 Machinery repaired!
ENEMY BB MINNESOTA
14 Heavy Hits received
LOG
24 17:23 14 in 15367 yds Fore/aft hull hit * (BB Arizona, AP)
24 17:23 14 in 15367 yds Turret B hit T * Turret disabled (BB Arizona, AP)
24 17:26 14 in 13943 yds Hull hit B (BB Ranger, AP)
24 17:28 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Olympia
24 17:30 14 in 14087 yds Critical hit *! Conning tower hit! (BB Ranger, AP)
24 17:33 Falls out of line!
24 17:40 Turret A jammed!
24 17:52 Turret A back in action!
24 17:53 5 in 12424 yds Turret A hit TT (CL Chicago, HE)
24 18:40 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD McDougal
24 18:55 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Olympia
24 19:04 Turret B back in action!
24 19:20 14 in 9461 yds Submerged torpedo flat hit * (BB Ranger, AP)
24 19:20 4 in 10219 yds Hull hit BE (BB Yorktown, HE)
24 19:22 5 in 12244 yds Secondary battery hit * (BB Arizona, HE)
24 19:23 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Olympia
24 19:38 14 in 10728 yds Hull hit (BB Arizona, AP)
24 19:41 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD McDougal
24 19:43 5 in 10518 yds Secondary battery hit * (BB Arizona, HE)
24 19:45 14 in 10469 yds Hull hit BE * (BB Arizona, AP)
24 19:46 14 in 10550 yds Hull hit B (BB Arizona, AP)
24 19:49 14 in 10924 yds Superstructure passthrough hit * (BB Arizona, AP)
24 20:04 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Tucker
24 20:07 14 in 13247 yds Superstructure hit BE * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 20:08 5 in 12921 yds Lower belt edge hit (BB Arizona, HE)
24 20:09 5 in 12940 yds Near miss! (BB Arizona, HE)
24 20:17 14 in 16630 yds Submerged torpedo flat hit * (BB Yorktown, AP)
24 20:19 14 in 14121 yds Hull hit (BB Arizona, AP)
24 20:31 14 in 15320 yds Engine room hit B (BB Michigan, AP)
24 20:52 5 in 12897 yds Superstructure hit BE (BB Michigan, HE)
24 20:54 5 in 12325 yds Superstructure hit DE Fire started (BB Michigan, HE)
24 20:58 Fire spreads
24 21:12 Fire reduced by damage control
24 21:16 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Michigan
24 21:22 5 in 11427 yds Fore/aft hull hit * (CL Raleigh, HE)
24 21:23 5 in 12000 yds Superstructure hit DE * (CL Raleigh, HE)
24 21:28 Fire extinguished
24 21:47 14 in 15092 yds Hull hit (BB Michigan, AP)
25 05:19 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Raleigh
25 05:23 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Raleigh
ENEMY BB NORTH CAROLINA
10 Heavy Hits received
LOG
24 17:19 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Yorktown
24 17:30 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Ericsson
24 17:44 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Tucker
24 17:49 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Michigan
24 17:50 14 in 13526 yds Secondary battery hit * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 17:50 14 in 13526 yds Hull passthrough hit * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 17:52 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Michigan
24 17:55 4 in 11534 yds Turret A hit T (BB Ranger, HE)
24 17:56 Secondary battery scores 2 hits on BB Ranger
24 17:56 14 in 11323 yds Superstructure hit * SEC* Secondary guns knocked out by splinters (BB Yorktown, AP)
24 18:10 5 in 13312 yds Secondary battery hit * (CL Chicago, HE)
24 18:18 14 in 10647 yds Hull hit B * (BB Michigan, AP)
24 18:19 5 in 11860 yds Turret Y hit T (CL Chicago, HE)
24 18:19 5 in 11860 yds Hull hit BE (CL Chicago, HE)
24 18:19 Limits flooding!
24 18:20 High speed increases flooding!
24 18:20 Detaches because of heavy flooding.
24 18:23 Limits flooding!
24 18:26 Limits flooding!
24 18:29 Limits flooding!
24 18:32 Turret A jammed!
24 18:33 Limits flooding!
24 18:37 Limits flooding!
24 18:38 Limits flooding!
24 18:57 Turret A back in action!
24 19:34 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CL Olympia
24 19:49 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD McDougal
24 19:50 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD McDougal
24 20:00 14 in 19858 yds Superstructure hit BE * (BB Ranger, AP)
24 20:26 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Arizona
24 20:29 14 in 16498 yds Superstructure hit * Fire started SEC* Secondary guns knocked out by splinters (BB Arizona, AP)
24 20:29 14 in 16825 yds Superstructure hit BE * (BB Ranger, AP)
24 20:29 Fire extinguished
24 20:36 Main battery scores 1 hit on BB Ranger
24 20:48 14 in 15092 yds Fore/aft hull hit * (BB Arizona, AP)
24 20:50 14 in 14469 yds Superstructure hit * SEC* Secondary guns knocked out by splinters (BB Arizona, AP)
24 21:15 14 in 14555 yds Hull hit DE * (BB Arizona, AP)
25 05:16 Limits flooding!
All three ships were of the following class:
And all heavy hits scored against them were scored using one of two guns:
Isolating the 14 inch hull hits, including B, D, critical, and just plain 'hull' hits, but excluding BE, Fore/Aft Hull, Superstructure, CT, Turret, Secondary Battery, and hull pass through hits produces the following list:
OREGON
24 17:50 14 in 13998 yds Hull hit B (BB Arizona, AP) [Theoretical Pen: 14.25 in]
24 17:52 14 in 13077 yds Engine room hit D (BB Ranger, AP)
24 19:03 14 in 13877 yds Engine room hit B (BB Michigan, AP)
[Theoretical Pen: 14.25 in]
24 19:15 14 in 11631 yds Hull hit D (BB Michigan, AP)
24 19:48 14 in 10560 yds Critical hit *! Salt water enters feed tanks. Machinery disabled! (BB Michigan, AP)
MINNESOTA
24 17:26 14 in 13943 yds Hull hit B (BB Ranger, AP)
[Theoretical Pen: 13.2 in]
24 19:38 14 in 10728 yds Hull hit (BB Arizona, AP)
[Theoretical Pen: 16.54 in B, 1.23 in D]
24 19:46 14 in 10550 yds Hull hit B (BB Arizona, AP)
[Theoretical Pen: 16.54]
24 20:19 14 in 14121 yds Hull hit (BB Arizona, AP)
[Theoretical Pen: 14.25 B, 1.93 in D]
24 20:31 14 in 15320 yds Engine room hit B (BB Michigan, AP)
[Theoretical Pen: 13.72]
24 21:47 14 in 15092 yds Hull hit (BB Michigan, AP)
[Theoretical Pen: 13.72]
NORTH CAROLINA
24 18:18 14 in 10647 yds Hull hit B * (BB Michigan, AP)
Note that I used the penetration values from the gun tables which consider my current armor technology, so in reality the theoretical penetration against these old ships should be higher.
Only two out twelve hits - the critical hit on Oregon at 10,560 yards and the belt (B) hit on North Carolina at 10,647 yards - were able to penetrate, whereas, according to the data, 7 ought to have. I wonder if this might be due to armor angling; for most of the battle, my ships were attempting to zig - zag ahead of the enemy, and therefore the shells ought to have been penetrating at an oblique angle, increasing effective thickness.
If this theory is correct, then firing at an enemy who is ahead of or behind you seems to be a much less effective tactic than it would seem on paper: good penetration results would demand that the firing ship be roughly parallel to and alongside the target.
So, my questions are: can anyone either confirm or deny this hypothesis? Is it consistent with your experience, or do you have an alternative explanation for these results?