|
Post by akosjaccik on Jun 17, 2019 3:48:26 GMT -6
It's arguably somewhat brave or optimistic to open a topic for a campaign that did not even start just yet - or the starting conditions set in stone for that matter -, but chances are, the game will be fairly slow-paced anyway if I can pull trough with it in the first place. Still, sometimes we have to just "stop worrying" and take the first step to see where the road will lead us. As such, let me present you my take on RtW2's Austria-Hungary campaign. The title is a not-horribly-witty play on the Empire's motto "Indivisibiliter ac Inseparabiliter" - it's interesting to think that it's almost like an ancient word-magic; a wishful thinking that did not get any more real after it was written down as some sort of law, or rather prophecy. In reality, the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy proved to be very much divisible and finally separated, but hopefully in my game I'll manage to push this relic of a past era into the modern age and both learn and have fun in the process.
My aim for the campaign There are some truly excellent AARs out here. While I am not a newcomer strictly speaking (I wrote my first "AAR" in ~2006 if I recall correctly, about the Eastern Roman Empire of Rome: Total War's Barbarian Invasion expansion, we called these quasi-historiographies "chronicles" back then - nostalgy in fact might be a small part of my motivational palette for I&I), I do not wish to-, nor could I "compete" with such writings. As such, the following points will NOT be my main focus: As you can probably see already, while I can get away with my english for the most part, I am very far from being able to produce such quality that I commonly found in the literary works of for example ieshima, MateDow or cwemyss. While it would be very fun to follow their footsteps, my skills can't let me do so, so I had to choose a different path. - Another reason for this was the fact that there are some extremely knowledgeable and well-read members. ...I am not one of them, when it comes to the in-depth functioning of a navy. Part of the reasons for I&I is for me to learn, examine and read about mainly the A-H Navy more, and take this opportunity to come out of this as something more than I began it. Still, this is not really my main spiel, which is of course, perfectly fine as long as I don't act like it is.
...so, what then? - If you know me from Budapest Naval Arsenal, this will not come to you as a surprise: having model making as a (somewhat half-*ssed) hobby, being a (somewhat half-*ssed) engineer by trade and having a (somewhat half-*ssed) 3D printer at my disposal, I decided to tie some of my pasttime activities together and bring RtW2's ships to life by modeling, printing and painting them. The entire idea came from this simple rule: I am allowed to commission a ship in-game if and only if I "construct" it in the real world.
I&I in my book is not necessarily about a historical challenge (did slash doing it that in my "own time"), accuracy, min-maxing, utilizing optimal solutions etc., but rather having a different kind of fun, experiencing, learning and practicing in the meantime and not the least having a - hopefully - good time together on these boards. Avability Originally I intended to report my gameplay "simply" in these forums, but I thought that the relative complexity of the project might validate a somewhat different approach. And with a hint of self-criticism, since I am a bit like the Python programming language (I can do anything - only badly), I slapped together a barely functional homepage:
House rules
Only one thing, really. To put it simply: The only ships I can use in-game are the ships I have a model of. To be a bit more specific, as my goal is not to work my *ss off, but to have fun, I will not be overly strict on myself if the conditions will be such, but I wish to model one (practically the lead-)ship of each class of capital ships and cruisers, and preferably destroyers. Corvettes are optional but I intend to do them as well, and also subs. ...well, I can talk with loud mouth here, since I already have the sub models (SSC, SS and SSM), but I might go back to them for a model or two more later on.
As I am using a mechanical CAD-software, I do not expect my models to be "photorealistic", then again, nor does the FDM technology require - or able to make a - very detailed and accurate model. To add to all this, I am not a very adept model maker either, so while I'll attempt to do my best, do not expect the quality to reach the levels of a commercially available, professional injection molded model assembled and detailed up by an excellent model maker. Then again - take the first step, let's see where we end up.
The initial conditions [W.i.p.]
No idea. ...okay, some ideas, but nothing exact just yet. As I said, the goal for now is not to struggle through the game, but to learn, experience and model interesting and fun ships, and as such, "hardcore mode" is not a priority, so the starting funds will be modded, I say that has a good 80% chance. Problem is, this seemed to screw with one of the patch updates, but hopefully this will not be an issue later on. The exact funds are to be decided, but the general idea is to have at least some tools and free space, while still being in a hindered position for say, "historical flavour": So, no facerolling, but for the aim of this AAR, there is no point in dying of starvation either.
I did not finish my experiment with modded land-bases, but since I will finish the game in 1950 ('55? Can't remember) probably and will utilize maybe ~80% research rate, hopefully this won't be an issue even in it's native state. Rest is probably untouched, no varied techs, no AI advantage, no slow aircraft development, and most likely no manual build of legacy fleet.
Interactivity An interesting subject. While I would love to involve you guys as much as I can, as it is after all, half the fun, it is no secret that as this project will take a fairly decent amount of effort even if I in the end do not manage to finish this for some reason, I'll keep matters mostly in my own hand. However, I'll most likely utilize the ideas I "tested" in Budapest Naval Arsenal, such as taking comments into account, asking for and using camouflage / paint scheme ideas, or - though not in the near future, due to the "slips being occupied" - doing commissions. If the latter happens, I'll focus first and foremost on the active commenters in the topic naturally.
Q&A Can I get my hands on the models? If and when I am modeling my readers' ships, I'll make them freely accessible. Currently, you can download garrisonchisholm's Admiral Wir from the homepage.
|
|
|
Post by alsadius on Jun 17, 2019 4:17:26 GMT -6
This is a really interesting concept. I expect photos
|
|
|
Post by mycophobia on Jun 17, 2019 9:49:44 GMT -6
now this is seriously tempting for me to run an AAR where I model every class of ships in from the depth or something.ill have to think about it
|
|
|
Post by akosjaccik on Jun 17, 2019 10:48:11 GMT -6
<abbr> alsadius said: </abbr>This is a really interesting concept. I expect photos Thank you, I tangled step-by-step into it. I plan to litter the topic with pics, both with drawn/edited and photographed ones. Inspiration is my middle name! Do it, come to the dark side! "Proof of concept" - 400-ton destroyer To illustrate the process with an actual ship, let me present a ship that will likely arrive at your neighbouring docks, should you choose A-H as your nation and an AI-generated legacy fleet. I miiiight have the campaign's starting save folder generated, though I am somewhat unsure just yet - putting that aside, if I happen to go with this save, the destroyer's namesake will be the S.M.S. Lussin. As you can see, the strict basis is provided by the in-game specifications and general layout. As long as I have historical examples and sources, they come in handy, but of course as time will go on, I have to rely on my creativity more and more, may God have mercy on our poor souls. One way or another, a 3D model should be ready in some time, which model should be sent to the 3D printer. Detail her up, slap a coat of paint on the hull, she's ready to go!
Going by my rules, from now on I am able to "legally" operate the Lussin-class - and maybe at the end of the road I'll have a handful of miniature fictional ship-models! ...maybe some dioramas, based on the gameplay.
The idea of the webpage came to my mind when I started thinking about "okay, cool, but once I have these assets, what else could I do with them?" Well, I could make my own "datasheet" for these ships just for fun, for example, but also use some extremely basic renders, or to simply make a collection of pictures of these models.
|
|
|
Post by mycophobia on Jun 17, 2019 10:57:07 GMT -6
I have to say the idea of visualized data card is absolutely amazing! Now do em for your planes too
|
|
|
Post by ewaldvonkleist on Jun 17, 2019 15:53:24 GMT -6
A very nice idea and a dedicated website is probably a novum for an AAR project! I wish you much fun and determination realising this project. Will you keep the same scale for all ships? Late battleships and carriers could become quite huge if you use the scale from the destroyer? Edit: Have just read on your website that you plan with variable scales. Understandable. Clearly you would need a garage size 3d printer to go with one scale for all.
|
|
|
Post by akosjaccik on Jun 19, 2019 7:49:26 GMT -6
[ ] Of course, sir! [Prestige +, Budget +] [ ] You mean those flying wire-balls of disgrace? [Prestige ++, Budget - ] [X] Uuuh, I... don't think so. [Prestige --, Budget -]
Indeed, I was somewhat torn on the issue. On one hand, it could have been very cool and fairly straightforward (...and easier) to work with one single scale for every asset, but considering I have to work with roughly a 200 x 200 mm area, I could not do justice for especially the early destroyers and corvettes. In the end I decided that for...
DDs and KEs the conversion will be built to 1m -> 1,5mm (~ 1:666) CLs, CAs, Bs, BBs and CVs will use 1m -> 1 mm (1:1000). This way if I place the model diagonally inside the workspace, I have 280mm -> "280 meters" of length to work with at the very most. Everything bigger would require a "dock upgrade". Anyway, this will hopefully give me a compromise in being able to compare a lot of ships to each other while not losing too much details on the destroyers in the meantime.
Also to give you gents something new, allow me to introduce a newcomer:
She's, as far as the digital model is concerned, for all intents and purposes done. I could still add a metric ton of fittings and whatnot, but at one point I have to work on... well, everything else. She's an AI-generated legacy ship, and looks good enough in 3D to almost make me forget how woeful she is. Almost. Then again, looking at the penetration tables, for the time being it almost doesn't matter if a nine or an eleven inch shell is the one not penetrating. (Preliminary datasheet is on the site, if things went according to plan).
Currently there is a small cruiser (Kleiner Kreutzer) in the works, the 3000-ton Zenta class.
Just like the E.F.F., she's big enough to eat up money, but small enough to be of limited use. (I will refrain myself from pulling a joke on this sentence.)
|
|
|
Post by ninjapacman on Jun 19, 2019 9:43:29 GMT -6
This is extremely cool. I love seeing these potential fictional designs come to life like this, and only wish I had gotten into modeling so that I could do the same with my own ships. I'd love to immortalize my greatest ships from both RTW1 and RTW2. Some of them have some excellent stories behind them that you can really bring to life with these models.
|
|
|
Post by akosjaccik on Jun 19, 2019 15:52:48 GMT -6
This is extremely cool. I love seeing these potential fictional designs come to life like this, and only wish I had gotten into modeling so that I could do the same with my own ships. I'd love to immortalize my greatest ships from both RTW1 and RTW2. Some of them have some excellent stories behind them that you can really bring to life with these models. Thank you! It sure adds a new layer; and it also has the added benefit that a small "noname" 400t destroyer is even less of a "cannon fodder" from now on, as I personally worked on them, their model stands on my desk, they are - in a sense - "real" ships, and I get a somewhat better grip on the idea that I am throwing around a tin can with 82 souls in it.
Or often times more, as is the case when it comes for example, the Zenta. She's good to go as well! The bow is less than optimal (it's optimized for printing), but I decided that reworking it into a proper bow with a ram takes a disproportionate amount of time with my current tools, so I'll do it when I feel like so.
In pleasant company:
The ships can be seen carrying various shielded low-angle mounts. I had a surprising amount of fun modeling these weapons to a moderate state of quality, where it is good enough for my taste but not unnecessarily over-done. The great thing is that I can play LEGO with these, literally refitting my ships with the weapons of my choice. I plan to track the "gun situation" of my gameplay, I look forward to see where I'll end up with foreign designs ("XY offered you this gun for a metric ton of money etc.") or locally produced armaments ("You researched 'XY' caliber, quality 'Z'!" ).
7 cm in official nomenclature, 66 mm in actual bore diameter, 3 inch in Rule the Waves 2 - I modeled this quick-firing gun (Schnell-Feuer Kanone; SFK) with the actual, historical piece in mind. The design is designated as the main armament of the Lussin-class destroyer (one gun in the bow), but also the Erzherzog Franz Ferdinand is using six of these in the anti-torpedoboat role.
Strictly speaking, the Škoda 10cm L/40 is a fictional gun - the A-H navy used the caliber, produced by Škoda, in the form of an excellent weapon (the 10cm/50 K10 - K11), but that design comes into picture only a good ten years later on, and the cruisers of the early 1900s tended to use 12cm guns - so did for example the historical S.M.S. Zenta. "My" Zenta-class however, uses the early, fictional 10cm; three on each side. In the bow and aft on the other hand...
...one can find a german-made piece, the 15cm SK L/40, this time - again - I simply ripped off reality, and let the gun show up in my game as 6" Q(0). The figure shows it used in a shielded mount, but it is also used in a casemated form on the battleships, such as the Erzherzog Franz Ferdinand, boasting five per broadside.
For now, these guns are fit for purpose, something which I can not say about the battleship-calibers, which are woefully inadequate.
|
|
|
Post by renlybaratheon on Jun 23, 2019 3:26:34 GMT -6
The only word i have is awesome. I'm simply awed (and maybe just a little bit aroused!!!!) by the work here and on the website
Bravo mon brave, Bravo
|
|
|
Post by akosjaccik on Jun 23, 2019 12:41:12 GMT -6
The only word i have is awesome. I'm simply awed (and maybe just a little bit aroused!!!!) by the work here and on the website Bravo mon brave, Bravo I am honored, honestly! It was the case of having an idea, started working on it a little and when I got my senses back, things got too far already. Currently the docks of Stabilimento Tecnico Triestino have cleared up, and the Erzherzog Franz Ferdinand-class coastal defense "batteship" and Zenta-class small cruiser began their active services!
ERZHERZOG FRANZ FERDINAND-CLASS Coastal defense battleship
ZENTA-CLASS Small cruiser
Can't say I am overly happy about how the Zenta-class turned out even if I take the limits of the used technology into account, but once again I picked up a few minor tricks and experience. Both the cruiser and the battleship is shown in a 1:1000 scale. For the sake of visuals, I opted for a bit more thicker gun barrels for 6" guns than it is realistic. I also ditched the rigging; in this scale I don't think I could make it so it adds to the visuals, and not clumsy and silly-looking.
Fuh! Three more to go - including a weird armored cruiser.
|
|
|
Post by ewaldvonkleist on Jun 23, 2019 15:47:50 GMT -6
Looks nice-in the end you could also model a blue sea and have a parade with your ships! Do they actually swim properly in water? I can very well imagine myself having a fleet-parade in my own bath tub.
One question, it looks like the ships could benefit from some polishing/removal of ridges with a file?
I had to grin about your self-description as I had the "ooh, tanks, ooh planes, ooh ships" chain too as a child (though ants, cars and spaceflight played a role too)
Regards EvK
|
|
|
Post by akosjaccik on Jun 24, 2019 10:03:25 GMT -6
Looks nice-in the end you could also model a blue sea and have a parade with your ships! Do they actually swim properly in water? I can very well imagine myself having a fleet-parade in my own bath tub. That would be a sight to behold. The material I use is PLA, with a density bigger than water, forcing it to sink when in solid form. However, although I never tried it, it might be possible with using enough layers and decent settings to create watertight (...enough) surfaces without too much fuss, and if the inside is filled with (mostly, apart from some support material) air, it could be done. Maybe it would even give basis for a radio controlled model, though it would probably be more trouble than worth, compared to a commercially available, injection molded kit.
That's actually a very valid observation, I could, hell, should've sand down at least the hulls. My laziness of course, went down on a full circle and got me in the back, as the uneven surface caused trouble both at painting (with the masking tape), and also at sanding the painted surface. The small details, now, that's a different issue. Due to the technology, I can only make separate, small detailing pieces (like whalers, steamboats etc.) in a very limited way, and mostly I just model and print "everything in a package", which is a fairly different idea compared to the classic model making. Problem is, the PLA is a surprisingly rigid material compared to for example PP or PE, so filing or sanding down small parts is fairly dangerous and tedious. Because even that would not get rid of some of the printing errors (as seen on for example the funnels), I generally clean the model up with a small flush cutter as best as I can.
Here is a picture to show the scale a bit better (ruler is in millimeters):
A significant amount of details are smaller than the toothpick. As such, I'd not risk the mast, air intakes, details on the hull etc., but as for the outer hull I have no excuse.
|
|
|
Post by garrisonchisholm on Jun 24, 2019 13:24:23 GMT -6
That is absolutely gorgeous.
|
|
|
Post by rodentnavy on Jun 24, 2019 18:25:08 GMT -6
That is absolutely gorgeous. What he said. I stand in awe of your talent and industry.
|
|