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Post by mycophobia on Nov 12, 2019 16:10:20 GMT -6
You are really on fire(and so its the Donau, I guess) with the updates recently These past few battles had been very enjoyable reads and the maps and graphs are awesome as always. Hopefully the next few months can cut you some slacks with some relative peace and quiet. The war is definitely off to a decent start, lets hope things can continue this way.
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Post by akosjaccik on Nov 16, 2019 7:09:30 GMT -6
I was indeed fortunate with the forces' placement, and doubly so with the armored cruiser arriving as a (competent!) AI-controlled support force. Myco' had a bad experience with the setting, this is the first instance that an AI support force shows up in my campaign and it turned out as well as it could possibly have. For this weekend I brought to you just a casual cruising aroun coastal raid, but - although I could really use some lull in the fighting - the next two months will be once again about medium-sized battleship clashes. So far, the war is more about baby steps than cataclysmic chain of events, but even in these "mediocre" engagements more than enough life are at stake.
The Armeeoberkommando asked the Navy kindly to participate in their upcoming operations by hindering the italian ground forces' ability to relocate. In order to achieve this, we were to destroy or severely damage the railroad infrastructure near Ancona, which could delay the italian reaction by as much as two weeks. Although engineering experts at our branch floated some doubts about having to need two whole weeks for a railroad to get fixed, our job was to cause as much destruction as possible regardless.
In order to keep the squadron's speed above of the italian main battle line's ability to pursue, once again the armored cruiser division was trusted with the task.
Italian coastal battery fires upon the Sankt Georg (Historical aerial photograph: Montenegrin coastal battery achieves a near miss on the armored cruiser S.M.S. Kaiser Karl VI., 1914)
...and they have delivered results as usual. Altohugh some interference was present due to a light coastal gun emplacement protecting the area not detected by our reconnaissance beforehand, it was confirmed that the target was successfully neutralized. Just in time too, as by the end of the shelling an italian battleship - identified as potentially the Napoli - showed up with her (rather massive) destroyer screen on the scene, but too late to prevent the cruisers' rampage, and too slow to retaliate. Thus the St. Georg lead the raiding force towards Cattaro as a diversion until visual contact was lost at about 10:00, when they turned and headed back to Zara with only the St. Georg in a mildly damaged state.
The force arrived back to port in the early afternoon, when Spalato also disembarked the eleven italian P.O.W., after she saved the crew of a small patrol craft's unfortunate accident with incoming high-velocity shells. While no doubt having to enjoy austro-hungarian hospitality is something they would rather not experience, it probably beats having to swim 11 nautical miles to the shore - presumed that they can swim in the first place.
In anycase, the country has been experiencing better months before. Construction of one of the mechant cruisers is delayed due to the Skoda not being able to deliver every new gun on time, but the fault lies in the steel shortage, which by the way also plagues the progress at least on one of the Ersatz Zentas. Italy meanwhile began constructing a 20cm shore battery by the looks of it (intel from the industry does not specify the exact location the guns will be sent to), and possibly started the conversion of three mechant vessels, perhaps following our example. On the bright side, reports indicate that our 7cm SFK L/45 quick-firing gun shows a better performance than it's russian counterpart. Well... we should not discount small achievements. If only the nations would compete on spreadsheets.
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Post by akosjaccik on Nov 16, 2019 19:08:57 GMT -6
Hopefully I did not screw up anything royally, especially regarding the text, but I thought I'll post this before I head to sleep. Seriously, I just have to stop going into I&I at 2 am. With the AAR some changes are in order, although nothing major. Since I have increasing amount of trouble with my old rendering software, I'll switch to a different tool which might help me create just a bit better rendered images (one such new-style image is present in this post for example). The only problem I have with the new software is (well, apart from it being relatively unknown to me so far) that the new images will break the consistency of the AAR's "illustrations", but the change is inevitable - hopefully, it's for the better. The other thing is that I am "forced" to give up the summarization of the destroyers' logs in the "Ship logs" on the homepage. While the whole point was to give more spotlight for the small combatants of the war and give credit for the unsung heroes, unfortunately keeping track of all of them is just such an insane amount of work even for me for the relatively little return, that in the future I'll most likely just deal with the capitals in that section. I do feel bad about it, but I have to draw a line somewhere and dealing with ~25 ships per battle for a section that is let's say, most likely not the most popular reading material on the page, instead of ~5 ships, is just over the top. With that said, I'll of course still keep close attention on them in the "main text"! All in all, some streamlining will most certainly help.
May, 1905
At the beginning of the month the Second Battleship Division, along with a massive escorting force, departed for the french port of Sfax in Tunisia under the cover of darkness. Our local superiority coupled with the threat presented by our young submarine force meant that we were able to pass the Strait of Otranto if not undetected, certainly unopposed. This time, the target was once again a transport convoy: sent from Tripoli to the italian mainland carrying supplies and reinforcements, and so it's strategic value was immense. We knew that, the Regia Marina knew that, and they were most likely also aware after their fiasco at Rhodes that we had the information at hand; meaning: this time it was safe to assume that the convoy will not be defended solely by a potected cruiser. And so, the Kriegsmarine departed with the best it could provide, for the first time in the war - not least because leaving the "pride of the fleet" at anchor for months does not do wonders with the crews' morale.
The plan was relatively simple. The Budapest-class is incapable of doing anything more than 17 knots, but that was sufficient for intercepting the convoy. The italian battleships, who were sure to be present, had the speed-, thus a significant tactical advantage, but that was seriously negated by the fact that they had a slow moving convoy to protect. Their route was also well determined, so all we had to do is departing from Sfax, pressing ourselves trough the defences by brute force against the italian qualitative-, and perhaps quantitative advantage and sink the convoy.
Simple.
Such plans are welcome because there isn't much on them to go wrong, and especially not much on them for the subordinates to misunderstand. Noone had any right to be surprised in the end when at around 13:00 in the afternoon the armored cruisers - tasked with the reconnaissance - reported contact. Fifteen transport ships, escorted by four battleships, an armored cruiser and twelve destroyers. Just like that, noone was surprised either, when the italian battleships began the battle with "crossing our T".
However, it did not matter. The squadron stayed on course 355, flank speed ahead, heading for the convoy, and betting on that despite the italian advantage, they won't have enough time to do something about the advancing austro-hungarian column. They were right about that.
Crawling closer and closer, the italians grew more desperate by the minute. At ~15:20 (GMT) they even tried to get into melee range, but a swift feint attack of the destroyers lead by the Boa sobered them up somewhat. At this point it began to get clear that our largest fears are exaggerated and discounting an unlucky hit on the S.M.S. Radetzky, they simply can't cause enough damage to dissuade the battleships before reaching the transport column. ...which they did, and chaos broke out in mere minutes.
In the ensuing close combat the majority of the convoy got annihilated under half an hour. The italian warships were barely able to oppose this, as their own, desperately maneuvering transport ships were obstructing their line of fire, making even assessing the situation a difficult challenge. Our side had it somewhat easier: if something looked even vaguely like a transport vessel, it was shot into oblivion.
By the time the first phase of the destruction and scattering of the transports was done, we were almost out of daylight. The Regia Marina's battleships conducted some half-hearted counterattacks from time to time, but sporadic gunfire and mainly the danger represented by the destroyers turned them back. In fact, the destroyers had to be recalled manually twice, as they were so eager to attack the capital ships that they engaged them from unadvantageous positions. Their spirit is commendable, but this was not the time to take such risks with so little odds in their favor. Although the signals ordering the withdrawals were surely not the most popular ones, we've suffered no ship losses in the battle at all, although some of them became rather battered, like for example the Tiger or the Spalato.
Italy, however, did "suffer ship losses". After the western group was dealt with, the main force turned around to look for the remnants of the eastern transport group. Unluckily for them, skillful navigation coupled with reliable sighting reports meant that they were unable to hide from the Second Battleship Division, even with the help of the darkness. Not with that kind of speed. At their sisters' demise the Regia Marina was present and made a respectable effort to protect them. This time - they were alone, and without any hint of chance. The Budapest-class ships sailed right into the middle of their formation and wiped them off the surface, concluding the operation.
The second battleship squadron wreaking havoc amongst the remaining transport ships
Strictly speaking, some elements of the battle were not mentioned so far, like the de-, then reattaching of the armored cruisers (this will require investigation in the future), or the unnecessary and risky, overconfident returning to the northern area of the battlefield, but fortunately, Italy saw no reason to hang around after witnessing the destruction of the convoy, so they headed back to home ports, not risking a nighttime engagement against a foe who had the destroyer advantage. Further examination of the battle is likely not necessary. Tactically, there was barely any finesse present in the maneuvering, and what little plan was there to follow, worked well enough. Everyting hinged on the italians not being able to capitalize on their "daylight firepower", which turned out to be indeed the case. The S.M.S. Radetzky suffered two such hits in the battle that might be worth mentioning: - 14:51 - Battleship Italia's 15cm high-explosive shell fired from 5591 yards hit the Radetzky's extended belt section, where the explosion pushed the armor plate in, causing minor flooding. - 16:15 - Battleship Vittorio Emanuele fired a 30,5cm salvo at the Radetzky from 8661 yards, one of which shells caused a critical hit, entering the machinery space and letting seawater into the feed tanks. Overall, the danger was present even for our best available battleships (do note, for the 11500 tons of the Budapest-class, the smallest italian battleship is weighting 14500 tons), but despite the italian gunnery showing an average performance, their firepower was just not enough for the time they had. This, however, can very easily be just the same for us, should we find ourselves on the defending side, in which case the destroyers will have to take on a large part of the responsibility. For now, we've achieved the operational goals flawlessly, and every ship arrived back to home ports in safety. The italian fleet is not defeated - but Italy is getting defeated, step by step, if we will be able to keep up the pace.
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Post by akosjaccik on Nov 17, 2019 16:22:05 GMT -6
Well, gentlemen, I hope you had a fine weekend! Mine was... eventful - at least when it comes to RtW2. I still have to get used to the new rendering tool, which I find to produce too... "artificial" images even after I post-process them with my rather limited photoshop-"skills", but since this is the best I got, it will have to do.
June, 1905 Releasing the dogs of war
With the arrival of the summer, there was still no willingness to be found to open negotiations. Italian pride and austro-hungarian luck shook hands and demanded even more sacrifice it seemed. The navy's upcoming task was once again land bombardment; this time a wider range of target clusters included storage facilities and communication-, and observation stations just as well. The crews and the high command both started to trust the battleships more since the recent events despite their shortcomings, plus there was a fair risk of the enemy intelligence working diligently - for these reasons, the fleet was to sortie in a loud and proud manner, and the Second Battleship Squadron was once again selected as the force's core, although the Babenberg had to be substituted by the Erzherzog due to the former's issues in maintenance. There was a good chance that our smallest battleship, a coastal defense ship - battleship esentially only in name - will have to go toe to toe against italian battleships twice her size, yet morale was reportedly at an all-time high on the Erzherzog.
Given that the targets are static in nature, the plan wasn't a whole lot more complicated than "get there and get rid of them". Should everything go well, the fleet was to arrive to their firing position exactly at sunrise.
...everything did go according to the plan, so much so, that even the italian fleet arrived on spot exactly at sunrise. They brought a message, and delivered it by the use of gunpowder. In short, the austro-hungarians were asked to leave. Unfortunately, we still had a job to do.
This was somewhat of a problematic situation, as experience showed that we can't reliably damage the italian battleships significantly trough gunnery, but at the same time, we couldn't simply just let them organize a target practice on us either. For a while the intermediate batteries shelled the ground targets, and the main caliber armaments of our ships fired at the italian fleet, dividing up our attention and firepower, but the situation was not sustainable, and certainly not efficient. Italy had the advantage.
Extremely fortunately however - Italy made a grievous mistake.
It was clear that our enemy trusted it's battleships, experiencing that our gunnery can barely affect them. So much so, that their battleship division tried to keep a close range, obviously to bear the brunt of their firepower on us with the best chance of hitting, and even chasing us for this reason when and if the 2nd Battleship Division turned tail towards the land targets. Well, an ancient trick of steppe warfare is the feigned retreat, when the pursuing, "victorious" enemy breaks formation and gets exceedingly vulnerable in the process. All the horse archer had to do is turning around in the saddle and using his bow. We did have our "bows" - 4-500 tons each, armed with Whitehead Mk.I. "arrows".
"Treffer!" - shout the men, as the S.M.S. Python scores a torpedo hit.
The general statement was that daylight torpedo attacks were suicidal - yet this is exactly that was prepared in these minutes, given the carless, aggressive nature of the opposition. Once the Second Battleship Division finished it's turn, their screening destroyers rushed forward in a flawlessly synchronized maneuver, and the pursuing RM battleship - well ahead of her companions - suddenly realized that she isn't the predator, but the prey. The issue was, on the port side there was land, and on the starboard side the austro-hungarian dogs of war, and fate was already underway, set to a depth of three meters.
The risk was always there - it was a painful, but not unexpected sight, seeing the S.M.S. Cobra sinking in mere minutes due to the shellfire coming in from the secondaries of the Regia Elena-class. It was clear that her sacrifice was not in vain however right at the moment Python's fish detonated on the hull of the italian ship.
The torpedo of the S.M.S. Leopard hits the sinking Leonardo da Vinci
The extent of the caused damage was impossible to assess at this point, but the ship later identified as the Leonardo da Vinci, who caused us a fair amount of trouble in former engagements, visibly slowed down and after roughly an hour, halted entirely. It was a rational decision to press on the attack and try to utilize and expand this success. In this frantic destroyer attack, at 07:53 one of Leopard's torpedo tubes receive a small-caliber high-explosive hit which detonates the wet guncotton warhead, mangling the small destroyer. Although her crew manages to keep her afloat right until early afternoon, finally at ~13:30 she finally and slowly succumbs to her many wounds. Her slow demise, her last gift to her crew, gives us the opportunity to rescue the majority of them later on, and carry them back home onboard the Salamander. The Salamander, carrying the survivors of the Cobra as well, picks up 83 men over the duration of the battle, awarding the ship the reputation for the one that "leaves no man behind".
The wreck of S.M.S. Leopard now lies south of Baia delle Zagare, at a depth of 20 meters.
These two destroyers - one Lussin-, and one Tiger-class - were our first losses of the war, but they were the only losses of this battle, and most importantly, we were able to pick up all of their survivors. In return, at 07:05 (local time) the italian battleship, now standing dead in the water, receives her second torpedo this time from the Leopard yet in fighting condition. The wounded destroyer had no was of knowing this, but this second (and last) torpedo was unnecessary at this point, and the Leonardo da Vinci was beyond saving. By 07:34, it's clear that Regia Marina just lost a battleship.
The battle was not over just yet however, although, to be fair, Italy had enough of it and they had the means to put that opinion into reality. Despite some pursuing, the faster italian battleships disengaged without any issue and returned to the port of Bari.
As a consolation prize, the fleet turned it's attention towards a lone, unfortunate italian destroyer that lagged well behind. Fully aware of the danger of the italian torpedoes and not willing to follow the Leonardo da Vinci, the austro-hungarian ships engaged carefully - but engaged ruthlessly. "Just to be sure", the Nembo-class destroyer got an ungodly amount of shells sent at her, with a fair few of those hitting as well. However, miracles do seem to happen sometimes, and as there was still a land-based objective left to be destroyed to the north, after a ten or so reported hits it was time to leave the stationary destroyer - now clearly looking like a cheese grater - to it's fate and actually accomplish our mission.
...three hours later the Turbine, barely at five knots but under her own power, arrived back to Bari.
The rest of the sortie was uneventful, especially compared to the earlier hours. Survivors were rescued, targets shelled, leaks patched up and battle damage somewhat repaired. The fleet arrived back to Cattaro in the evening, with two destroyers less, but with an important victory to tell about.
Overall, the war is going well. We've lost two destroyers and one of our submarines this month - the latter due to an accident, which is not surprising given how relatively unreliable the experimental constructs are -, but the AMCs are about to begin their service, the very first Ersatz Zenta is almost ready to begin her trials, and a replacement submersible is immediately ordered. For the time being there are no plans to replace the lost destroyers. We do have reasons for hope, ultimately. Italy's battleships are still a formidable force to be reckoned with, and we will be all the wiser if we don't forget about their large armored cruisers either, but as long as we can continue to take calculated risks, fight concentrated, define sensible goals and be patient, we do have a good enough chance. And perhaps just enough time for a glass of wine.
*Very, very vague estimation based on crew compartment, level of damage and rescued crew members ** Tonnage was not (and could not be) registered, data deals with number of ships simply and may not be entirely accurate either *** As shown in the almanac; may not contain ships undergoing maintenance
Regarding the industry, the fleet in Cattaro was able to receive the brand new range calculators during the repairs and the maintenance process. We've started using capped armor-piercing projectiles as well following the good results on the proving grounds, although mass-production did not kick in quite just yet, and truth be told, the soft metal cap also negatively affects somewhat the aerodynamical properties of the shells. Still, that will be a serious problem once the fighting range opens up even more, and by that time hopefully we'll also have the solution in our hands.
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Post by mycophobia on Nov 18, 2019 6:13:58 GMT -6
You are really pumping out updates faster than I can read them, I will have to try and keep up The new renderings looks good, especially the few night action shots, as is the very detailed battle maps. Just curious, but what program do you use to draw these, MS Paint isn't exactly working well for me xD The definitely seems to be going well your way, and it amazes me you had not lost ANY ship until that may battle, AH damage control and fire fighting is really impressive. An additional suggestion. While the movements of all vessel is very clear in your AAR, the capability of enemy ships are not always that clear. While we are clear on the Italian speed advantage, I don't think we have a clear idea of the Italian B's superiority beyond speed and tonnage. Granted, at this time period it most likely boils down to a few more/bigger guns that cannot get much penetration anyways, but might a good idea to have a brief overview of enemy ships that we can refer to (At least the ones whose performance are some what relevant to the battle). But by all means, the amount of detail and organization that went into this is amazing, I will be looking forward to the next update.
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Post by akosjaccik on Nov 18, 2019 7:08:39 GMT -6
Fear not, a much slower phase is up ahead. Some IRL work of "elevated intensity", plus the first ship of the new cruiser class will begin her trials next month, so it's time for me get my *ss up from the PC to print-and-paint, following my own rules - and it will be a smart thing to build the new battleship just as well. I'll probably write about the model building too, once I get there. I find your suggestion certainly valid by the way, I did leave the technical details of the opposition largely as a blank spot and will write up something about that in the near future I believe. I'll list every software I am using for the AAR: - I produce the models (in the software's native format for editing, assembling and rendering; and in STL for printing) with the academic version (or licence rather) of Solid Edge 2020 - Renderings are done with KeyShot 8 (before the switch, both modeling and rendering was done with Solid Edge V20) - "Post-processing" of the raw rendered images (adding wakes, joyful smoke puffs, less joyful explosions and such) and editing maps, screenshots etc. are done with the old-school Paint Shop Pro 8 (this is what you were asking about, and it sure does a fair amount of heavy lifting ) - Before 3D-printing, I am configuring the process via SLIC3R (STL file -> PLA model) - Data analysis is done by the ol' trusty Excel. I believe that's all, plus the Notepad.
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Post by akosjaccik on Nov 18, 2019 8:57:38 GMT -6
I also began this topic back in the summer by basically shoveling all kinds of garbage into it, and one should never forget about his roots - so in the spirit of integrity, since I test-rendered some (otherwise completely useless) images about the new battleship class running under the project-name "Ersatz Erzherzog" (with currently 'S.M.S. Kaiser' and 'S.M.S. Hunyadi' under construction), allow me to share them with you guys. Perhaps I'll try to add some smoke and wakes etc. to try for some wallpaper-sort of something, but for now they are what they are, just some raw experimentation. You don't need bandwith anyway.
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Post by akosjaccik on Nov 21, 2019 16:29:54 GMT -6
To walk around the capability and current status of both the Regia Marina itself and it's ships, I've written a (sort of) summary that will hopefully give you guys a bit more context regarding my (or, as I like to address in the AAR: our) current opposition. ...I do hope you like graphs.
---*---
It is perhaps also time to take a broad look at the forces in the area, and also how the individual ships interacted with each other in battle - and on paper. The current balance of forces can be drawn up like such:
It's important to note that the exact locations, parameters of the italian ships and their current status is only our best guesses based on the intelligence. Even then, it's apparent that we have the upper hand for now, so much so that in the next two weeks after the battle Italy did not respond to the austro-hungarian forces appearing in the area, esentially allowing us to blockade them. Now, while the realities of the war warns us not to think in pure ship-on-ship situations of given classes, for the ease of discussion it's still a fair idea to examine the italian capabilities in context with their direct counterparts in the Kriegsmarine.
When it comes to the battleships, the qualitative disadvantage is, of course, still apparent stemming simply from the smaller sizes of our ships. As a rule of thumb, we are nearing to the point where the italian 30,5cm main armament might actually penetrate any armor plate on our ships - including the main belt - from close range (and this is a feat that the standard 24cm L/40 K94 cannot even begin to hope to achieve in return). When we'll reach this point, should some new italian armor-piercing shells help them in that regard, we'll see a drastic drop in our current ship's effectiveness. They are severely lacking in offensive power already, but by then they'll lose their staying power as well. The intended solutions of this problem are already under construction. So much about the future however, as it might be interesting to examine the past as well. Let's take a look at the capabilities of the intermediate batteries:
Since both navies use the 15cm guns pretty much exclusively in this role, the comparison isn't difficult. The images above show the rough armor layout of a "standard" legacy battleship for both navies - different values might vary over different classes, but the conclusions are by and large correct for any battleship currently in service. While the graphs are only an approximation (and even then they apply to modern Krupp armor, while the ships in question utilize harveyized plates), one can see that to penetrate the extended belt of an italian battleship with the 15cm AP grenade, the range must be closer than ~4000-3500 yards, and perhaps even that might not suffice in certain cases. In return, the 2,5" thick extended belt of the Wien-class can almost certainly be penetrated at sub-6000yds ranges. With this, by the way, the Wien is in a favourable spot, since the other classes are equipped with plates thinner by half an inch on the extended vertical surfaces. All of this is in line with what we experienced in earlier engagements, where the austro-hungarian battleships were slowly battered down, while at the same time they couldn't seem to cause any notable damage in return. Couple this with the fact that the Budapest might slow the squadron down to 17 knots, and that the smaller displacement directly influences survivability itself, and we can clearly see why is that despite the apparent numerical advantage the Ersatz Erzherzog-class battleships are-, and have to be in the pipe. Right now the Kriegsmarine's battleship force can live long enough to accomplish objectives, even if it can't decimate it's italian counterpart. Once the italian shells gain the capability to penetrate the main belt, virtually all seven ships currenty in our service will have to roll the dice everytime they dare to sortie.
The Donau-class armored cruisers are somewhat better off, but truth be told, mainly only due to the italian armored cruisers not being stationed in the area just yet.
Thinking back at the duel of the Donau and the Marco Polo, once again we can see why the gunnery struggled, and the solution was the torpedo. Problem being of course that the torpedo is extremely situational. In anycase, the graphs above show once again the parameters of the mid-caliber AP-shells against each other respectively. The main caliber guns can, as a rule of thumb, penetrate any section of the ships. The intermediate battery, however, is an entirely different beast. We can see that the Marco Polo's 15cm shells can defeat the main belt (and the conning tower) of the Donau-class from a range smaller than roughly ~3500 yards. Turning the scenario around, the result is simple: the Donau's 12cm guns can not penetrate the belt of the italian armored cruisers. This would be the case with the Donau's pre-refit 15cm Skoda guns as well by the way, so having the 24cm turrets onboard at least open the door for the "lucky shot", while the results regarding the Marco Polo's extended belt section would be similar to that of the 12cm guns', meaning that the extensive refit certainly had some good arguments. Granted, the ships lost speed, but at the same time gained some resistance against torpedoes, and the ships of Italy could talk about the importance of that. Of course, even then there is only so much one can cram into ~7000 tons. The italian armored cruiser force is, for these reasons, numerous and frightening - but for now they are busy keeping their possessions under control.
There is far less to mention about the protected cruisers, for three reasons. One being the fact that despite the minor difference in sizes, the small cruisers of the two states are roughly comparable both in numbers and in capability. Second reason being that similarly to their big sisters, the italian protected cruisers are also away on foreign stations. Finally, just a few months later the balance of forces are expected to shift largely in our favour.
Ersatz Zenta-class cruisers nearing their completion. Rumor has it they will take up the names of former commander-in-chiefs, giving birth to the "Admiral-class".
Closing up with the ships of the destroyer force, one can summarize it very simply by stating that there are no notable differences in individual capabilities whatsoever. Italy keeps a tad bit more vessels in active service of this type, but otherwise our destroyers so far did not run into a task that they weren't able to fulfill trough bravery and expertise. Still, the relative lack of attention towards the light forces can be traced back to the earlier 600-ton studies not deemed to be presenting a statisfactory next step. Some attempts were made to re-arm the Tiger-class with the new 10cm SFK L/40, but preliminary calculations came up with worrying issues and the project was put on hold.
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Post by mycophobia on Nov 22, 2019 4:25:08 GMT -6
That was definitely a very detailed comparison, perhaps quite more than what I was expecting when I asked for a potential comparison In anycase, now that things are put in perspective, things definitely begin to look decently in your favor, especially with the Italian ships mostly scattered around the world. Very ironically this is what one would expect when fighting something like Royal Navy, but I guess the RM is more or less the "Mediterranean boss" in that regard with a similar weakness. It does seem that the Italian battleship fleet still pose a major obstacle in any engagements, the Ersatz Zentas will do well against the Italian Cls that were unfortunately cowering in East Africa or something. I do hope we can see the Semi-Dread in construction getting a chance to mop the floor(hopefully) with the Italian Pre-dreads.
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Post by akosjaccik on Nov 22, 2019 5:27:03 GMT -6
One might imagine it as the Marine Nationale doing something at least, bogging down the RM cruisers on the colonies. Well, if they were so eager to expand into East Africa, now they pay the price of having to defend it somehow. A part of me almost wants to send out the Donau-s to try to intercept their CLs and perhaps the lone CAs while supported and supplied by the french ports, but that would > endanger the armored cruiser division itself > endanger the Zenta-s remaining at home (one italian armored cruiser is unaccounted for, so she might be in repairs in the Med) > while having no rationale behind the operation as neither the war nor the geostrategic positions demand anything similar > overall risking more than potentially gaining ...BUT it would be fun and a nice way of waving the stick in their faces. Hm, perhaps Northern Europe might be the most reasonable, should I decide to do such thing. Italy could only reinforce quickly from the Med, and France has good forces here, in their home area. Hmm...Indeed, realistically the most I should expect from the A-H bat.divs are holding their grounds and keeping the italians at bay until the ammunition runs out. Even less in case Italy can achieve local superiority. I am torn on the semis, as I'll be very disappointed if they won't get to show their worth, but at the same time 28-29 months until their construction is finished (and more, knowing the industry...) plus the working up, it's plenty of time for me to run right into the knife well before that multiple times. They might still pull a Cree.
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Post by mycophobia on Nov 22, 2019 5:31:41 GMT -6
I'd think having a lone Ersatz Zenta sent out for some colonial harassement might be fine since you should have no problem running from CAs, and can handle all the CLs. If they remain at home I don't see them doing much against the Italian battle line under the current situation, but then I guess my own CLs will tell me otherwise... As for the semi-dreads...the cutting edge ship of today makes for great convoy escorts of tomorrow....
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Post by akosjaccik on Nov 22, 2019 5:49:55 GMT -6
I'd think having a lone Ersatz Zenta sent out for some colonial harassement might be fine since you should have no problem running from CAs, and can handle all the CLs. If they remain at home I don't see them doing much against the Italian battle line under the current situation, but then I guess my own CLs will tell me otherwise... As for the semi-dreads...the cutting edge ship of today makes for great convoy escorts of tomorrow.... True enough - with one hiccup. They are short-ranged. Perhaps it's a good sign to push away the "coastal force" concept and openly, declaredly go for a blue water fleet post-war. The international scene will not be overly happy probably, but a potential war victory could be a good enough letter of recommendation. Until that, the CA in Northern Europe looks more and more the tempting target of opportunity the more I look at it.
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Nov 22, 2019 8:42:06 GMT -6
I'm not sure if I were an Austrian staff-member I would be advocating such a scheme. Sending out a lone ship is just begging fate to write it off. Many things can happen with an unsupported vessel. I even have the personal policy of not deploying cruisers in less than sets of 3, though admittedly this is an "avoiding disaster" policy, which theoretically should happen infrequently.
Stay in the warm bath of the Adriatic! You are winning the war. That is the advice from Ober-Admiral Dumkopf. :]
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Post by akosjaccik on Nov 22, 2019 19:11:50 GMT -6
Truth be told, in a non-AAR'd "standard" gameplay I'd not leave the Med, so I do understand your opinion. On the other hand, I can't deny some level of curiosity and leaning towards taking a risk. However, this did give me the idea of creating a poll about it, so the readers can participate really simply. I don't plan to certainly act on the results without a second guess, but I certainly am curious what you gents think about, how you'd approach this.
The situation: Reports indicate that there is a lone italian armored cruiser operating in the North Sea, possibly without reinforcements. We have the conceptual opportunity of sending our own armored cruiser(s) there, where allied french bases and perhaps some french naval units could support it or them. One on one the italian armored cruisers are larger than the Donau-class cruisers and are presenting a considerable level of threat. There is currently no direct strategic incentive to hunt the italian cruisers down, as they virtually don't matter as long as they don't enter into the Mediterranean Zone.
The possibilities:
A.) NO MOVEMENT + We would risk our only (two) armored cruiser(s) in a precarious situation for maybe damaging an italian armored cruiser at best. + We have no interests beyond the Pillars of Hercules. Literally nothing is forcing us to operate on foreign waters. + Should any italian armored cruisers return back to the Mediterranean, the Second Cruiser Division will be ready to combat the threat if, and only if they'll stay where they are now + Our armored cruisers are actively helping now to keep up the blockade
- There is little opportunity for the austro-hungarian armored cruisers to do anything meaningful in the current situation in the Mediterranean. To put it simply, there are no suitable targets for them anyway.
B.) TAKE IMMEDIATE ACTION (send the Sankt Georg now to the north)
+ The faster we act, the more probability that the intel stays relevant and the italian unit will be there where we anticipate it to be + Friendly french forces might show up to help out the Sankt Georg + In case both ships damage each other, we can rely on the french bases in the area. Italy has nothing.
- We would send a single ship against an opposition that is easily more likely to win that duel - The french might show up - or they would not, leaving the Sankt Georg to fight for herself
- Taking a massive risk for an italian ship that bothers noone (well - perhaps the french)
C.) WAIT A MONTH (send the entire 2nd CRUDIV) + Even if France is unwilling to help, there are two austro-hungarian ships in the area + The chances even out in this case + This would be the first instance for the Kriegsmarine to leave it's home region in wartime and on the offensive, making a precedent
- If we are extremely unlucky, there is a theoretical chance for the italian armored cruiser to finish off the 2nd CRUDIV one by one - By the time we get there, the the report might lose it's accuracy, and we'd be there chasing ghosts
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Post by spodermanspooooooody on Nov 28, 2019 22:56:48 GMT -6
dude what you are doing is so cool
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