Wartime Emergency Coastal Fortifications

[dougphresh]

As per my own experience as an artilleryman, and my handy copy of Field Artillery and Firepower, employing field artillery pieces in the coastal role is not uncommon. 

I therefore propose, that similar to AMC and wartime KE production, that 3 and 4 in guns can be built more cheaply and rapidly in wartime, with the tradeoff that the mounts be unarmored. I would suggest a build time of 1 month. It takes a gun crew a day to dig a gun pit, and the recce detachment can site a battery in much less time than that. Seeing as the game's smallest time is a month though, that would give time to site the directer, preregister fires, stockpile ammo, camouflage the battery and echelon, improve the emplacement etc etc. 

[rugnir]

I agree - and I think that in general coastal emplacements really need to be reduced in cost a little. I love using them, and feel like a genius every time I successfully goad the enemy into their range, but it is extremely difficult to justify the cost for anything other than role-playing reasons right now. When for the cost of a single emplacement I could have a modern battlecruiser that mounts more than twice the number of the exact same guns, building coastal artillery that hardly plays any role either in the tactical or strategic modes is a colossal waste.

[aeson]

Jul 11, 2019 7:11:10 GMT -6 rugnir said:

When for the cost of a single emplacement I could have a modern battlecruiser that mounts more than twice the number of the exact same guns

The most expensive coastal battery you can build in the game is the turreted 14" battery, which shows a cost of 33 million over 10 months in the Build Fortification dialogue but actually costs 26.4 million over 10 months when you build it (actual construction costs are 20% lower than listed in the Build Fortification dialogue for all coastal batteries). 26.4 million is roughly half to three-fifths the cost of a typical legacy fleet predreadnought battleship and is unlikely to be more than a third the cost of even an early 14" battlecruiser; even the monthly construction cost (3.3M listed / 2.64M actual) probably isn't much more than two-thirds the monthly construction cost for a decent mid-1910s battleship or battlecruiser. Additionally, the coastal battery, once completed, has an enormously lower operating cost than a reasonable 1910s battleship or battlecruiser would, with turreted 14" batteries having a listed upkeep of 115k/month in the Build Fortification dialogue and an actual peacetime operating cost of 69k/month (actual peacetime operating costs are approximately 40% lower than listed in the Build Fortification dialogue for all coastal batteries).

I generally agree that coastal fortifications in general and heavy coastal fortifications in particular are not very worth building, but it is extremely inaccurate to say that they cost as much as modern battlecruisers that mount twice as many of the same guns - only when looking exclusively at the monthly construction costs is that statement even close to being true.

[alsadius]

So let's look at building one, and operating it for ten years of peace and two years of war.
14" fort = $26.4M to build, $69k*120 = $8.28M in peacetime, $115k*24 = $2.76M in wartime. TOTAL = $37.44M
6x14" BC (approximate) = $120M to build, $400k*120=$48M in peacetime, $600k*24 = $14.4M in wartime. TOTAL = $182.4M

So you can get five batteries for the cost of one BC, more or less. But the BC has more guns than a battery, it's mobile, and it'll actually show up in battles. I'm not willing to give up a BC for five batteries, unless I'm placing those batteries in key locations where they'll make a difference. I'd happily give up a BC to fortify the heck out of Gibraltar, for example, especially if it could be used realistically to interdict enemy movements through the Straits. But as RTW stands now, I'd need at least 10:1, probably more like 20:1, before I'd consider buying them. Right now, I blindly scrap all coastal batteries that fall into my hands from any source.

[noshurviverse]

Another thing that can be annoying is that Coastal Batteries are much less useful on large territories. Sure, with Gibraltar, Guantanamo Bay or Midway you know where they're gonna be, but North/Northwestern France is a huge area for a single gun battery. The same goes for, say, the American West Coast. I'd throw out the suggestion that buying coastal batteries should place them along the entire territory. Of course, this would have the oddity that a half dozen batteries along a large coastline would cost the same as a single island battery, but the in-battle effect is likely to be the same, a defending force can seek refuge under the cover of coastal guns.

[aeson]

Jul 11, 2019 12:58:32 GMT -6 noshurviverse said:

Another thing that can be annoying is that Coastal Batteries are much less useful on large territories. Sure, with Gibraltar, Guantanamo Bay or Midway you know where they're gonna be, but North/Northwestern France is a huge area for a single gun battery. The same goes for, say, the American West Coast. I'd throw out the suggestion that buying coastal batteries should place them along the entire territory. Of course, this would have the oddity that a half dozen batteries along a large coastline would cost the same as a single island battery, but the in-battle effect is likely to be the same, a defending force can seek refuge under the cover of coastal guns.

So far as I am aware, coastal batteries built in a possession can only spawn in a handful of predefined locations - usually between three and six, never more than eight, and often concentrated around ports/bases - and as such getting for example getting a dozen coastal batteries for the price of one on the US West Coast probably wouldn't help too much. Which points actually spawn batteries is determined randomly at battle start, and if you build more batteries in the possession than there are predefined spawn locations then multiple batteries can spawn in the same location and are given slight offsets (maybe a few hundred yards) from the defined position.

Getting six shore batteries for the price of one in a large possession like the Western USA would more likely result in a handful of heavily-fortified positions along the coast than in having a coastal battery close at hand no matter where on the coast you happen to be.

[dorn]

Because costal batteries protect some choke points or ports.

But in RTW it is more about being covered if needed.

[JagdFlanker]

i'm not a big fan of Coastal Batteries, i'd rather spend the cash on ships

what might be interesting is adding a Company of Marines to every Coastal Battery bought to help protect your possessions from invasion

perhaps each Coastal Battery/Marine Company reduces the chance of invasion success by 25% (or whatever) for each built in that location

then i would consider building them

[aeson]

Jul 11, 2019 15:55:32 GMT -6 JagdFlanker said:

what might be interesting is adding a Company of Marines to every Coastal Battery bought to help protect your possessions from invasion

Per word of Fredrik here, coastal batteries already reduce the likelihood of an invasion triggering.

[JagdFlanker]

truth be told i haven't tried using them in RtW2 so i'l have to experiment and see if things are different

[stevethecat]

Have generally found CBs to be a waste of money so anything that boosts their effectiveness is a win for me.