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Post by phoenix on Mar 22, 2015 8:41:08 GMT -6
Whilst we're waiting for RtW, and whilst I'm happily muddling my way through the RJW Russia campaign and have the entire fleet at sea in August of 1916 in search of the HSF, in SAI, I thought I would ask opinions in here (where no doubt I can trust your responses) as to whether any other non-modern era naval wargames were worth picking up. I already have tried, a while back (and fairly quickly abandoned) the graphics and glitch rich Jutland offered (and, I guess, abandoned) by Koger et al. Not my thing. Has anyone tried the John Tiller offerings? No point in looking at his WW1 and Russo-Jap iterations as I have the first class games in those eras already (RJW and SAI). But in particular the WW2 ones - Midway, for example? Anyone tried that and care to comment? I'd be fearful, after the great AI in NWS games, that a possible lack of AI would put me off, but I don't know. Thought I would ask in here. Thanks.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Mar 22, 2015 9:50:32 GMT -6
I have "War over Vietnam" by John Tiller and that is a good game, the AI is ok. I will say that as you migrate to WW2 and beyond in the gaming world, you now encounter the air component as an increasing part of the gaming experience. The air component of any game is very complex, if you game it correctly and accurately. An example of this complexity is "War in the Pacific"; that is very complex, time consuming game with great detail. Supremacy at Sea is an excellent game but is much easier to play and enjoy. It really depends on your goal; enjoy the game and not be concerned about details or the opposite. Accuracy and detail to provide you with the air experience of reality. Your choice will determine what game is the best for you. Enjoy and have a good time. BTW, if you decide on one of the games and have no experience or little with the air component, by all means get on the forum and ask questions. There are many on here, including myself with many years of experience with aircraft and the study of air warfare including gaming experience. I would strongly urge you to create the thread on the Off Topic Discussion board but that is the call of the NWS Staff. I don't know where they might want the thread to be created. Don't be surprised if this new thread gets moved to another board.
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Post by phoenix on Mar 22, 2015 10:52:08 GMT -6
Thanks, Oldpop. I was interested in the air aspect, I guess. You haven't tried his Midway game? I draw a line at WW2. Nothing after that, tempting as Vietnam might be. I have, for example, CMANO, but can't be bothered with it, because I'm not interested in modern conflicts. Or not enough. Would like to know how Tiller's Midway is.
Yes, probably should have posted this somewhere else, but I wanted the opinions of those who I could trust because they too must think SAI and RJW are, so far, the pinnacle of this type of naval game.
Peter
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Post by oldpop2000 on Mar 22, 2015 13:28:50 GMT -6
Thanks, Oldpop. I was interested in the air aspect, I guess. You haven't tried his Midway game? I draw a line at WW2. Nothing after that, tempting as Vietnam might be. I have, for example, CMANO, but can't be bothered with it, because I'm not interested in modern conflicts. Or not enough. Would like to know how Tiller's Midway is. Yes, probably should have posted this somewhere else, but I wanted the opinions of those who I could trust because they too must think SAI and RJW are, so far, the pinnacle of this type of naval game. Peter I have no personal experience with Midway the game - www.armchairgeneral.com/naval-campaigns-midway-pc-game-review.htm
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Post by julianbarker on Mar 22, 2015 13:52:07 GMT -6
Some ofthe best naval games were made during the DOS era.
Carreirs at War was quite good, but the WWII equivalent of SAI was definitely Action Stations. No air, basic graphics, but an excellent engine, especially for night actions. Modelled burning ships, star shell etc very well. Spent many hundreds of hours c1993 fighting night actions in the Solomons and fighting the Italians in the Med.
Both games are available on various abandonware sites.
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Post by kasuga on Mar 23, 2015 4:56:31 GMT -6
I am a little young for the late 80s early 90s but i read good things about these games... my personal experience is more from "Age of sail 2" and "Fighting steel". For me if you dont need air power you can try "Fighting steel" if you can install it... i am unable to install it in Windows 7 and well, in Vista i remember had problems with graphics bugs, is sad that this title offer a ton of problems when you try play it (even install it) for me is a clear candidate for GOG and well, NWS do a good job to wiht FSP proyect and i miss the game to many years i remember it many times The Norm naval titles are good or were good, since last patches they add a lot of problems to the new ship packs at the point i read about guys unable to play the packs they pay or critical bugs in the campaign modes... for me they start with a good game but they ruin it with the stupid anticopy system and the solution was even worst... try create their own Steam... invest a lot of resources in something useless for players and in the end they have a bugged to the hell game with a crappy launcher, i avoid buy them even with the superoffers they are doing, simple buy them is play a russian roulette. JT... i dont have Midway but i try it thanks to a friend, in the end the ship VS ship area is the same poor model like in the other Tiller naval games and the add of planes is not a great help, you control the aircrafts in a way that made the game strange to play in real time when clear needs a turn system and improve the AI to reduce the players jobs, sometimes when i played it feel overflowed doing the job if a section airguy... you command ship divisions and units of 2-4 planes and when you have 100 on air is lol doing it in real time. Carriers at war... the last version from SSG is good but when you play it you feel the game is not complete at all, some areas are poor modeled (air VS land) and lack of info is frustrating... for example you cant know how many hits eat a ship selecting it, you need control the attack logs and even doing this you dont know what hit the ship (bomb, torpedo, what kind of bomb torpedo...) if you can find it in offer you can try it but is not good enough specially when is only limited to Pacific and not all... there are 2 mods that add more Pacific battles and a pair or European scens but nothing more.
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Post by Sven on Mar 23, 2015 11:46:02 GMT -6
If it does not need to be a Computer game, I can recommend two old solitaire board games. Both from Victory Games. One is "Carrier" the other one " Tokyo Express". Great titles. Might still find some on the market. Look them up under Boardgamegeek.com
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Post by RNRobert on Mar 23, 2015 16:43:51 GMT -6
Have you tried another NWS game, Warship Combat: Navies at War? It covers naval combat of WW1 and WW2 (and the WW1 OOB includes the IJN and Russian ships of the RJW). It is a turn-based game (each turn is 3 minutes) that while not as detailed as SAI (nor is there a campaign mode), but that does try to model naval combat as realistically as possible, and is easy to learn.
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Post by kyle on Mar 23, 2015 17:21:18 GMT -6
If you can get it to run - there is an old dos game called Action stations - abandonware. It's still the best surface naval tactical wargame I've found that covers WW2 surface actions. It is turn based, 3 minute turns. If I was more savvy on computers I'd be playing it still on my Windows 8 box.
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Post by williammiller on Mar 23, 2015 18:52:18 GMT -6
Gents - Interesting discussion, but this is rather off-topic for SAI/RTW, so if you wish to continue please take the conversation to the 'off-topic' board.
Thanks!
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Post by kasuga on Mar 24, 2015 6:20:12 GMT -6
Sorry but when appear a thread like this is imposible not post hehehe. Any way a thread like this could help to explore ideas and customers preferences for a future F&S game (Fuel and Steel) WWII game
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Post by phoenix on Mar 24, 2015 7:21:10 GMT -6
It is very interesting. Thanks for all the suggestions and feedback. Sorry to have started the discussion here. I'll ask in 'off-topic' in future!
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Post by vonfriedman on Mar 24, 2015 8:49:36 GMT -6
This discussion seems to indicate a widespread interest in a new version of Thunder at Sea. In other words: not only naval battles between surface ships of the WW2 era but also an airpower component (realistic but not overly detailed) plus an "operation level" flavour. I've always been of the opinion that TAS + Fighting Steel Project was a great product. As it is clear that FS is no more a viable issue, we can only hope that NWS will devote to this new game as soon as possible.
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gato
New Member
Posts: 38
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Post by gato on Apr 3, 2015 11:16:31 GMT -6
"But in particular the WW2 ones - Midway, for example?"
1. HPS Midway Campaigns is excellent minute-to-minute wargame about aircraft carriers battles with a much historical, operational, tactical details. 2. Carriers at War 2007 - very interesting operational wargame with very strong AI. 3. Fighting Steel Project is a classic naval tactical simulator. 4. WiTP AE - is a giant wargame about strategic and operational aspects of 1941-1945 clash in the Pacific, in PBEM mode of playing.
I`m a active player of this games (+SAI).
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Post by phoenix on Apr 10, 2015 2:28:01 GMT -6
Thanks Gato. I've got round to trying Midway now and I'm finding it surprisingly interesting so far. So far I've only got as far as letting the AI play against itself in the introductory scenario, but even that functionality (AI v AI) is interesting (to watch how well the AI does) and interesting to watch.
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