20 inch guns have hulariously insane penetration example the german 21 inch gun penetrates 49 inches of american 1945 grade A battleship steel
while the japanese 20 inch gun penetrates 46 inches of the same steel
in rtw2 you are lucky to get 26 inches of penetration at point blank with 20 inch guns
I'd love to see your sources for this data. Especially as Japanese 18in pens around 30-35in at point blank range, some 10% more than 16in. And you claim 20in would pen a whopping 25% more?
this also leads to the fact that pre dreadnoughts feel like a boxing match only they are hitting eachother with clouds which do nothing
pre dreadnought guns cant do ANYTHING and have HORRIBLE armor penetration
I somehow managed to have my ships pen enemy ones. And my ships were penned as well. Yes, it will take time, and yes, HE shells may burn the ship down sooner than APs will destroy it through pens.
Guess what, that's exactly what happened at Tsushima, where battleships had to be beaten to death for hours or sunk with torpedoes.
As for differences between RTW1 and RTW2, besides those mentioned, I'll add that battle generator seems to need some fine tuning still. RTW1 is better in this regard at the moment.
For calculating penetrations i use the FACEHARD program made by nathan okun
www.navweaps.com/index_nathan/index_nathan.phpan expert in armor and guns
its available on navyweps
i recomend using dosbox to run the program
but for easy acces to penetration tables use this
www.navweaps.com/index_nathan/Penetration_index.phpdo keep in mind the 20 inch projectiles are not modeled in the penetration tables as the penetration tables are only for guns actually used on ships
regarding guns pen
no unless you have sub 8 inch armor you cannot be penetrated at point blank AT ALL unless the enemy is using 14+ inch guns or you have rushed into ap tech very fast (only possible with germany)
also surprisingly yes battleships could be penetrated by armor piercing shells
AS SHOWN DURING TSUSHIMA
the russian battleship oslyabya was sunk just 90 minutes into the battle PURELY by gunfire
the battleship borodino got critically hit in the 152mm magazine and exploded a bit after (purely gunfire)
all of the battleships which were sunk in the daylight action except for knyaz suvurov were sunk by gunfire only
keep in mind tsushima was not a close range brawl it was ranged action at around 5k meters
these ships used what was assentially sheit armor
most russian ships had armor that was assentially 0.7 times as good as us 1945 armor and the mikasa had 0.8 on it as it used more modern armor instead of the older armor
the russians used harvey steel (quite trash) while mikasa used the new Krupp which was sigificantly better at this time
here are the tsushima battlemaps
2.bp.blogspot.com/-Q8c7GLLxR8g/TdnIyBnWrbI/AAAAAAAAKMs/0E_yrEmZp0I/s1600/battlemap%2B1400%2Bto%2B1500%2Bhrs.jpg1.bp.blogspot.com/-BzENdGzoe0Y/TdnSxs_36pI/AAAAAAAAKM0/_koTw7PTACg/s1600/BattleOofTsushimaPhase3.jpgnotice that while the ships seem to pass close thats not actually the case
the firefight only starts once the japanese reach the 1410 point marked on the first map and for the rest of the tsushima battle the battle distance is 5-4km
there are a few times they pass close (mainly when crossing the T) but outside of that battle ranges are quite far for the time
if you want me to i can calculate mikasas armor penetration against a russian battleship
in fact here is a table for russian 305mm gun used on borodino and a 254mm gun used on some of their coastal defence ships
12"/40 (30.5 cm) Pattern 1895
Elevation Range Side Armor Striking Velocity Angle of Fall
0 degrees 0 yards (0 m) 15.00 in (381 mm) 2,600 fps (792 mps) 0
0.91 degrees 2,000 yards (1,830 m) 12.25 in (311 mm) 2,250 fps (687 mps) 0.98
2.00 degrees 4,000 yards (3,660 m) 9.88 in (251 mm) 1,940 fps (592 mps) 2.24
3.36 degrees 6,000 yards (5,490 m) 7.91 in (201 mm) 1,660 fps (507 mps) 4.53
5.08 degrees 8,000 yards (7,320 m) 6.26 in (159 mm) 1,430 fps (436 mps) 7.54
7.26 degrees 10,000 yards (9,140 m) 5.08 in (129 mm) 1,240 fps (379 mps) 18.90
10.02 degrees 12,000 yards (10,970 m) 3.66 in (93 mm) 1,130 fps (344 mps) 17.53
Data is from "Gangut" Issue 7 article for these guns vs. KC-type Armor.
This projectile was in use during the Russo-Japanese War.
russian 10"/45 (25.4 cm) Pattern 1891
Armor Penetration with 496.5 lbs. (225.2 kg) AP "old model"
Elevation Range Side Armor Striking Velocity Angle of Fall
0 degrees 0 yards (0 m) 13.50 in (343 mm) 2,560 fps (777 mps) 0
0.92 degrees 2,000 yards (1,830 m) 10.9 in (277 mm) 2,200 fps (671 mps) 1.06
2.07 degrees 4,000 yards (3,660 m) 8.66 in (220 mm) 1,890 fps (576 mps) 2.55
3.52 degrees 6,000 yards (5,490 m) 6.93 in (176 mm) 1,615 fps (492 mps) 4.79
5.36 degrees 8,000 yards (7,320 m) 5.55 in (141 mm) 1,380 fps (421 mps) 8.06
7.66 degrees 10,000 yards (9,140 m) 4.29 in (109 mm) 1,200 fps (367 mps) 12.70
12.31 degrees 12,000 yards (10,970 m) 3.31 in (84 mm) 1,100 fps (336 mps) 18.71
Data for guns on Pobeda with a muzzle velocity of 2,549 fps (777 mps) vs. KC-type Armor.
This projectile was in use during the Russo-Japanese War.
Data from "Gangut" Issue 7 article.
keep in mind this is firing at what is assentially some of the best armor at the time (Krupp cemented)