Proposal for Player-generated divisions

[cv10]

I've seen a few people make suggestions for player created ship divisions and task forces, and decided I'd throw my own $0.02 in. In my idea, I've taken into account that a big consideration for how divisions get generated is that wartime conditions don't always allow for ideal task force/division composition.

My idea would be to keep the current force generator and merge it a bit with the system for setting up fleet problems/naval war games. The force generator would continue to select the ships used in battle as it does now, but would place them into a pool. Before the battle scenario would load, players would have the choice to create divisions and place the ships in the pool into them. There could be some sort of cap on the number of ships in each division (4 B/BB for a battle squadron, 5-8 max for a destroyer flotilla). Alternatively, the player could opt to let the computer form the divisions as it does now.

It would not address the concerns of those who want more control over what ships get picked, but it would let player make the best use of what they are given to fight with.

Apologies if anyone has already suggested this idea. 

[williammiller]

Interesting suggestion, thanks!

[hawkeye]

Yes, this is an old suggestion, but given the recent discussion going on here nws-online.proboards.com/thread/4881/when-battle-generator-drunk?page=3&scrollTo=72123 I felt this deserved a bump.

[rimbecano]

I'd prefer to have the player create divisions at the strategic level, and then have the battle generator determine which divisions present will be used, and which ships in each division will be available. Then, if it's not an unexpected battle, maybe give the player a final opportunity to adjust a few things before battle. The most significant thing I can think of in that vein would be to reject ships not desired for the current battle (e.g, you have a spare battleship in theater in case other ships are in the yard for maintenance, but it's slower than the rest of your battle line and for the present battle you're satisfied that you have enough ships without it).

The reason I'd like to create divisions at the strategic level is to reduce micromanagement: Divisions, rather than ships, would be assigned to stations, and a ship assigned to a squadron could, for instance, be taken in for a refit and automatically rejoin its squadron afterwards without the player needing to issue movement orders.

[telematic]

It would be nice to have the same structure of the battle (e.g. cruiser division and escort destroyer squadron) at the strategic level. So we could have a more rational view and the player could organize the fleet according the characteristic of the ship classes. E.g. more AA for escort destroyers of Carrier division.

[smrfisher]

I would prefer a strategic overview facility, creating destroyer flotillas, battle squadrons, etc. and be able to assign task to a whole division and leave the battle generator alone, so that some ships in a division etc. may not appear like happened with one of the QEs at Jutland, or some capital division don't have a destroyer escort like in the chase for the Bismarck.

This I feel would give more flavour to how you construct, and deploy your navy (unified battle line speed a la US Standards, or 1 class destroyer flotillas) while still allowing for the random nature of the battle generator.

However this would need the introduction of a flagship designation in the ship designer for either a flotilla leader or a slight modification for one ship in a capital ship class, such as USS South Dakota having two fewer 5"/38 secondary turrets, than her sisters for flag staff.

[polygon]

Being able to assemble ships into at least nominal fleets and divisions on the world map would make fleet management much easier as well.

[noshurviverse]

May 16, 2020 11:16:06 GMT -6 smrfisher said:

One idea that I've been considering for a while is that RtW does not factor superstructure and funnels into the actual design of a ship. As some people have said, you can't really create DD flotilla leaders because the difference between a 200t KE and a 56,000t BB as far as it's ability to command is essentially none. On the same note, you can make a ship that has zero room for funnels or a superstructure but the game considers it valid.

I think having a section for superstructure and funnels would be worthwhile. These could either be placed the same as turrets, in pre-designated positions, or in "levels" like TPS is. Higher levels of superstructure/command would influence things such as the ability to command larger formations and reduce the odds of signal errors. For DDs this would make the DDL a viable design, so long as the battle generator realizes that a ship with the highest level of command ability should be placed as the leader.

Unrelated to this conversation, but funnels might influence engine efficiency? I think UA:D has your engines create a required amount of funnels to work at full effectiveness, but I'm not familiar with how that works in reality so it might just be abstraction.

[dia]

I'd rather have the opposite. Let the player organize on the strategic level and the battle generator choose from there. Makes it easier to move ships strategically and might actually be a way for our intentions when we design a ship to be translated to the battle generator.

But there has to be some middle ground. Using the system for setting up fleet problems/naval war games on the strategic level would be micromanagement hell for large fleet sizes and inflexible for small fleet sizes. Larger flotillas for light ships and taskforces would work better on the strategic level.

While I do think giving the player an option to choose to create divisions from a pool prior to the battle if he so desires is a good idea, I think the battle generator itself and strategic movement system needs to be improved first.

[hawkeye]

On the strategic level, I'd like something similar to what Aurora 4X does (see picture)

On the tactical level, I'd like the battle-generator to group ships according to the strategic organization, but choose which ships are available pretty much as it currently does and if there is only a single cruiser from, say, 2nd Cruiser Squadron, then so be it.

[polygon]

Yeah, I'm totally okay with "oh no your supercruiser ran aground and your battleship had condensor trouble so now your Atlanta clone needs to fight the entire IJN", that sort of thing happened historically. But I'd like to be able to set all my 24 knot dreadnoughts in one fleet, and my 28 knot battlecruisers in another fleet, and for the love of god please stop mixing the two in dividions!

[countryboy]

New owner, just bought the game, but already I can see that it would be helpful to be able to manage your ships according to a proper OOB: Fleets --> Squadrons --> Divisions or whatever. That long long list of ships in service is not great.

[williammiller]

IMO this is one of the most requested items we have seen, so we certainly hear you and it is among the possibilities we are discussing.