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Post by konstantinosmegas on Oct 26, 2022 10:54:14 GMT -6
Is there a good guide to defending against aircraft? I'm in 1925-26 and I see Austria-Hungary has like 300 aircraft. I'm playing as France and I'm definitely going to be fighting in the Adriatic, which is a 'great' place to fight in because all of their aircraft can be concentrated on one spot. What AA loadout should I use and how do I get CAP up over all my forces rather than just one BB/BC group?
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Post by JagdFlanker on Oct 27, 2022 3:45:52 GMT -6
Is there a good guide to defending against aircraft? I'm in 1925-26 and I see Austria-Hungary has like 300 aircraft. I'm playing as France and I'm definitely going to be fighting in the Adriatic, which is a 'great' place to fight in because all of their aircraft can be concentrated on one spot. What AA loadout should I use and how do I get CAP up over all my forces rather than just one BB/BC group? first thing i do when i start a battle is go into the OOB tab and set all TFs to 'Core' (or 'screen'/'support') so all my ships at least try to stick together. if you begin right in the Adriatic start moving out towards the open water of the Med as fast as possible. if the carriers start running off you might have to manually keep your lead TF close to the carriers to keep everybody covered, but try and 'lure' your carriers to open water
don't be afraid of equipping your carriers with an 80%/20% fighter/strike aircraft mix so that you have a LOT of fighters for air cover. as soon as the scenario starts set your CAP to 'heavy,' but if it's close to sunset then you can likely set it to 'max'
i believe night fighting training will increase the odds of a battle starting later in the day or at night so that might be a good way of getting the chance to move away from enemy air power early in a battle
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Post by srndacful on Oct 28, 2022 22:57:46 GMT -6
I think I've seen it somewhere on the forum, but it was ages ago and I can't remember where - and I can't find it now - and the Manual isn't any help - so: In the 'Aircraft types' window, in the 'Torpedo' column you usually get 'M' or 'H' or '-' - denoting the max range at which you can execute torpedo attacks with this plane. But in the later era (for me, in the current game, from about 1945) - I sometimes get twin results - like: 'M/H' or '-/M' - and I forgot what this denotes. Two torpedoes? Guided Missiles? I just can't remember. Help please? PS: Since I'm already here: konstantinosmegas Austria is hardly a boogeyman - I should know: it's my favourite nation - 5 airfields widely spaced? Please. That 'one spot' you're dreading is a 50-mile patch of water off Sebenico where no action has ever happened. You get planes from 2 or 3 airfields tops - and the only way Pola and Fiume get to play is if they field Medium Bombers. If you want a 'great' place to fight in, try the French Azure coast, where 5 airfields are within easy reach with Heavy Loads - and even then I managed to get 2 BB's with 1 (one) CV escort out - although not quite unscathed. Just follow the SOP and you'll be fine: tons of HAA and MAA on your ships, and 'heavy' CAP at all times. If you're retreating, you might set it to 'extreme' just to be on the safe side. Between 2/3 and 3/4 of the aircraft on your CV's should be fighters - just so you can have half of your strike as escorts - you'll need it to punch through the enemy CAP.
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Post by splatterdemalion on Nov 12, 2022 10:55:36 GMT -6
LBA works best in 3 places: the Mediterranean, the Baltic and north of Europe. Out of these, the Mediterranean is prohibitevely expensive to cover(especially if you remember that if you're there, you're not the richest nation in the game), which leaves the Channel, Germany and the Baltic. If you don't have ports in any of these places, you can safely ignore LBA. As a German player who likes to blame the Russians for everything bad in the world, I just completed my 4th or 5th war with them in 1955. So, you know, a LOT of fighting in the Baltic (a couple campaigns over the North Sea as well). As I was reviewing my entire air armada, I noted some stark differences. My carrier-based “Flotten” may count a dozen or more kills and strikes in their records, but my hundreds of land-based MBs, Fs, DBs, TBs, and PBs between have notched a total of 2 air-to-air victories in 30 years of warfare. This despite routine requests to “attack enemy ships” or “suppress enemy airfields” as well for “land-based CAP” in deadly waters. This is not to say that land-based air doesn’t work. Daily our fleet is subjected to level bombing from the Motherland (though thankfully it is rarely effective), while our own Luftwaffe snuggles back into bed after completing their morning search pattern. I realized on a recent turn that €20M of my €46M monthly wartime budget was going towards aircraft, of which a large portion is for multi-engine planes that have never fired a shot in anger. I wonder at why my airfields are so quiet, then the AI seems to have no problem sending waves of planes at me. To some extent, I have countered this by using night-time to launch carrier strikes against enemy airfields (bye-bye Libau), since these seem reasonably effective and the operational losses are usually ~10%. I’ve also decided that I should probably scrap all my land-based air except PBs (for the ASW) and maybe fighters (I can’t prove that they never provide CAP). However, it would be nice if land-based air could be made to work for the player. I wonder if the strike system has something to do with it; maybe the airfields are waiting for strike orders (via the lightning bolt) that cannot be given.
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Post by JagdFlanker on Nov 13, 2022 6:23:46 GMT -6
As a German player who likes to blame the Russians for everything bad in the world, I just completed my 4th or 5th war with them in 1955. So, you know, a LOT of fighting in the Baltic (a couple campaigns over the North Sea as well). As I was reviewing my entire air armada, I noted some stark differences. My carrier-based “Flotten” may count a dozen or more kills and strikes in their records, but my hundreds of land-based MBs, Fs, DBs, TBs, and PBs between have notched a total of 2 air-to-air victories in 30 years of warfare. This despite routine requests to “attack enemy ships” or “suppress enemy airfields” as well for “land-based CAP” in deadly waters. This is not to say that land-based air doesn’t work. Daily our fleet is subjected to level bombing from the Motherland (though thankfully it is rarely effective), while our own Luftwaffe snuggles back into bed after completing their morning search pattern. I realized on a recent turn that €20M of my €46M monthly wartime budget was going towards aircraft, of which a large portion is for multi-engine planes that have never fired a shot in anger. I wonder at why my airfields are so quiet, then the AI seems to have no problem sending waves of planes at me. To some extent, I have countered this by using night-time to launch carrier strikes against enemy airfields (bye-bye Libau), since these seem reasonably effective and the operational losses are usually ~10%. I’ve also decided that I should probably scrap all my land-based air except PBs (for the ASW) and maybe fighters (I can’t prove that they never provide CAP). However, it would be nice if land-based air could be made to work for the player. I wonder if the strike system has something to do with it; maybe the airfields are waiting for strike orders (via the lightning bolt) that cannot be given. interesting, my land based air usually does strike after strike and often getting at least some results. i stick with 60 aircraft limit, and only put 1 squadron of 20 fighters on bases closeest to the enemy airbases, the other 40/60 aircraft are torpedo bombers until i develop torpedo armed medium bombers the only medium bombers i ever bring into service are armed with torpedoes since torps are much more effective than bombs - i don't bother developing any bomber that can't carry torps i never build patrol aircraft, but that's my preference
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Post by jwsmith26 on Nov 13, 2022 9:24:16 GMT -6
interesting, my land based air usually does strike after strike and often getting at least some results. i stick with 60 aircraft limit, and only put 1 squadron of 20 fighters on bases closeest to the enemy airbases, the other 40/60 aircraft are torpedo bombers until i develop torpedo armed medium bombers the only medium bombers i ever bring into service are armed with torpedoes since torps are much more effective than bombs - i don't bother developing any bomber that can't carry torps i never build patrol aircraft, but that's my preference Wow, JagdFlanker - no PBs? I consider PBs the most valuable land-based aircraft. They provide excellent search and kill subs, though they are a bit expensive. It doesn't take many for the search role. Most of my bases have about 4 to 6 PBs. I'm curious why you find them unimportant.
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Post by jwsmith26 on Nov 13, 2022 9:45:35 GMT -6
LBA works best in 3 places: the Mediterranean, the Baltic and north of Europe. Out of these, the Mediterranean is prohibitevely expensive to cover(especially if you remember that if you're there, you're not the richest nation in the game), which leaves the Channel, Germany and the Baltic. If you don't have ports in any of these places, you can safely ignore LBA. As a German player who likes to blame the Russians for everything bad in the world, I just completed my 4th or 5th war with them in 1955. So, you know, a LOT of fighting in the Baltic (a couple campaigns over the North Sea as well). As I was reviewing my entire air armada, I noted some stark differences. My carrier-based “Flotten” may count a dozen or more kills and strikes in their records, but my hundreds of land-based MBs, Fs, DBs, TBs, and PBs between have notched a total of 2 air-to-air victories in 30 years of warfare. This despite routine requests to “attack enemy ships” or “suppress enemy airfields” as well for “land-based CAP” in deadly waters. This is not to say that land-based air doesn’t work. Daily our fleet is subjected to level bombing from the Motherland (though thankfully it is rarely effective), while our own Luftwaffe snuggles back into bed after completing their morning search pattern. I realized on a recent turn that €20M of my €46M monthly wartime budget was going towards aircraft, of which a large portion is for multi-engine planes that have never fired a shot in anger. I wonder at why my airfields are so quiet, then the AI seems to have no problem sending waves of planes at me. To some extent, I have countered this by using night-time to launch carrier strikes against enemy airfields (bye-bye Libau), since these seem reasonably effective and the operational losses are usually ~10%. I’ve also decided that I should probably scrap all my land-based air except PBs (for the ASW) and maybe fighters (I can’t prove that they never provide CAP). However, it would be nice if land-based air could be made to work for the player. I wonder if the strike system has something to do with it; maybe the airfields are waiting for strike orders (via the lightning bolt) that cannot be given. I noticed that you mentioned that you sometimes use the “suppress enemy airfields” option. I have found that when this option is used it will dramatically increase the number of damaged aircraft at land bases, often reducing the usable aircraft to such an extent that the AI cannot form viable strike forces (I suspect there is a minimum number of aircraft that must be available before the AI will form a strike). However, all of this suppression does not appear to cause any actual aircraft kills, planes get damaged and grounded, but not destroyed. The result of suppression in a relatively balanced situation is that both side's land-based air will remain largely inactive for much of the first day of a battle while the air bases go about repairing the damaged planes. Depending on when the battle starts, land-based air activity may pick up in the afternoon of the first day of battle, If the battle extends into a second day most airbases will be back to full strength. This certainly doesn't account for the inactivity of your aircraft when you have not used the suppression option, but when suppression is used the likely result is that you will see little land-based air activity and a relatively bloodless battle for those planes.
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Post by splatterdemalion on Nov 13, 2022 10:54:24 GMT -6
I noticed that you mentioned that you sometimes use the “suppress enemy airfields” option. I have found that when this option is used it will dramatically increase the number of damaged aircraft at land bases, often reducing the usable aircraft to such an extent that the AI cannot form viable strike forces (I suspect there is a minimum number of aircraft that must be available before the AI will form a strike). However, all of this suppression does not appear to cause any actual aircraft kills, planes get damaged and grounded, but not destroyed. The result of suppression in a relatively balanced situation is that both side's land-based air will remain largely inactive for much of the first day of a battle while the air bases go about repairing the damaged planes. Depending on when the battle starts, land-based air activity may pick up in the afternoon of the first day of battle, If the battle extends into a second day most airbases will be back to full strength. This certainly doesn't account for the inactivity of your aircraft when you have not used the suppression option, but when suppression is used the likely result is that you will see little land-based air activity and a relatively bloodless battle for those planes. Interesting. It’s too bad the war just ended, I would try setting the airbases to attack enemy ships and focus my carriers against enemy airbases. FWIW, I developed torpedo-capable MBs in the early 20’s, so for a long time they were set to attack shipping. Now that single engine ranges are pretty good for Northern Europe, my airbases usually have 10PB 20MB 20F 15TB 15DB, and a focus on reliability, so I would expect there to be plenty of planes available for strikes; but I’ll check it out next time.
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Post by JagdFlanker on Nov 13, 2022 11:16:24 GMT -6
interesting, my land based air usually does strike after strike and often getting at least some results. i stick with 60 aircraft limit, and only put 1 squadron of 20 fighters on bases closeest to the enemy airbases, the other 40/60 aircraft are torpedo bombers until i develop torpedo armed medium bombers the only medium bombers i ever bring into service are armed with torpedoes since torps are much more effective than bombs - i don't bother developing any bomber that can't carry torps i never build patrol aircraft, but that's my preference Wow, JagdFlanker - no PBs? I consider PBs the most valuable land-based aircraft. They provide excellent search and kill subs, though they are a bit expensive. It doesn't take many for the search role. Most of my bases have about 4 to 6 PBs. I'm curious why you find them unimportant. Medium bombers are just as good for searching since they have a long range, they are usually faster so the search is faster (if i have CVs in the area i let land-based do the searching so my CVs can preserve all their aircraft), and they can likely defend themselves better in that role in reality they could be of at least some service in the ASW role (B-24 in the Battle of the Atlantic), but no idea if the game gives them any ASW ability
i let my special built 'DDE's (1100t DD w/5" guns) handle all ASW on TP, i build at least triple than required (80+ on VL Fleets) which seems to keep the sub threat reasonable - i rarely get merchant sinking or fuel shortage warnings
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Post by jwsmith26 on Nov 13, 2022 11:45:37 GMT -6
Wow, JagdFlanker - no PBs? I consider PBs the most valuable land-based aircraft. They provide excellent search and kill subs, though they are a bit expensive. It doesn't take many for the search role. Most of my bases have about 4 to 6 PBs. I'm curious why you find them unimportant. Medium bombers are just as good for searching since they have a long range, they are usually faster so the search is faster (if i have CVs in the area i let land-based do the searching so my CVs can preserve all their aircraft), and they can likely defend themselves better in that role in reality they could be of at least some service in the ASW role (B-24 in the Battle of the Atlantic), but no idea if the game gives them any ASW ability
i let my special built 'DDE's (1100t DD w/5" guns) handle all ASW on TP, i build at least triple than required (80+ on VL Fleets) which seems to keep the sub threat reasonable - i rarely get merchant sinking or fuel shortage warnings
Unfortunately, only PBs have an ASW function, however PBs are not supposed to represent only flying boats, but also represent 4-engine naval patrol bombers used in this role, such as the Consolidated PB4Y-2 Privateer (the B-24s you mention). You might be surprised by how many subs are taken out by PBs when they are available. I have not found PBs particularly vulnerable when they are on search missions.
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Post by dorn on Nov 13, 2022 12:43:03 GMT -6
I do not use PB too much too as I usually have decent number of KE to keep enemy submarines at bay. Only if enemy has really huge number of submarines, I start to have some PB squadrons.
I found MB superior at every aspect except ASW and as soon as they can have torpedo they potential increases significantly. Quite often they either keep CAP focus on them so carrier strike do real killing or they do some damage through torpedoes. Till having torpedoes they are more usefull as scouts and distracting CAP.
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Post by cogsandspigots on Nov 28, 2022 10:54:39 GMT -6
interesting, my land based air usually does strike after strike and often getting at least some results. i stick with 60 aircraft limit, and only put 1 squadron of 20 fighters on bases closeest to the enemy airbases, the other 40/60 aircraft are torpedo bombers until i develop torpedo armed medium bombers the only medium bombers i ever bring into service are armed with torpedoes since torps are much more effective than bombs - i don't bother developing any bomber that can't carry torps i never build patrol aircraft, but that's my preference Wow, JagdFlanker - no PBs? I consider PBs the most valuable land-based aircraft. They provide excellent search and kill subs, though they are a bit expensive. It doesn't take many for the search role. Most of my bases have about 4 to 6 PBs. I'm curious why you find them unimportant. Meanwhile, I’m over here with most of my bases having 40 to 60 PBs. Hah! I just really hate enemy subs.
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