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Post by pashahlis on Oct 27, 2019 23:37:49 GMT -6
Like for example, a CL may only have up to 3.0 inches of armour, or else it will be reclassified as a CA. Or that a ship with 12000 displacement and 6x 11inch guns is still considered a CA.
That sorta stuff.
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Post by dizzy on Oct 28, 2019 0:10:31 GMT -6
Well, looks like you've got a good start on the list already. There are a lot of nuances that you learn as you go. I think the above 11" guns only go for Germans, otherwise you're getting reclassed as a BC. AV's can't have higher than 3 inches of belt, KE's 2 inches and can't have guns bigger than 5 inches... There's a laundry list of stuff, like when CL design goes up to 10k from 8k displacement. What fries my brain is how BC's get classed according to their belt and speed before getting bumped to a BB depending on the year and when the last blue moon was. It's maddening. GL.
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Post by JagdFlanker on Oct 28, 2019 2:24:59 GMT -6
i believe if a ship has guns 11" or greater, and has 12.5" or more of belt armour, it will be classified as a BB
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Post by aeson on Oct 28, 2019 3:11:20 GMT -6
i believe if a ship has guns 11" or greater, and has 12.5" or more of belt armour, it will be classified as a BB There's a time and speed component to the classification, as well as some oddities with how the game handles different design choices. For example: Barfleur is a battleship commissioned 1914; Renown is the successor class, currently undergoing its design study. Barfleur was classified by the game as a battleship at time of design, Renown as a battlecruiser - and, interestingly, swapping Renown's 3x2 main battery out for a 2x3 main battery along the lines of that on Barfleur gets Renown classified as a battleship without changing anything else. Later in the game, of course, the game will try to reclassify Renown as a battleship.
Beyond that, to the best of my knowledge any reasonably normal capital ship design with a design speed greater than 30 knots will to the best of my knowledge always be classified as a battlecruiser even very late in the game:
If you can keep the design displacement to 10,000 tons, you can put up to eight 20" guns in two turrets on a CA, and if you accept a 22kn and 6" max-belt limit you can put up to seven 20" guns in two turrets onto a CA.
Also, I put together a partial list of classification requirements for Rule the Waves v1.34b1 here; while it is neither complete for that game nor entirely accurate for Rule the Waves 2, it'll give you some idea of what's allowed.
As far as I am aware there are no nation-specific exceptions in the ship classifications - you can build Deutschland-type cruisers as Britain and Tsukuba-type cruisers as the USA if you want to do so.
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Post by dizzy on Oct 28, 2019 3:37:07 GMT -6
Really? I thought the patch that fixed the 11" guns on CA issue was German specific? Well, cool! Learn something new all the time in this game. And you'll constantly wonder if you're building your ships the right way. I'm always asking myself if I'm designing the most efficient Raider CL or if my Belt and Deck on my BC designs are really needed to be as armored as I make them. Always wondering if I'm doing it wrong...
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Post by demonius on Oct 28, 2019 3:45:21 GMT -6
Retrofitting a 3x3x16" gun, 10"+ belt Iowa BB in the mid-40s from 28 knots Oil to 30 knot Diesel engine made her a BC as well. No fast battleships for us...
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Post by dorn on Oct 28, 2019 6:22:16 GMT -6
I think there is some magic with 12.5" belt for battlecruiser, sometimes being battlecruiser, sometimes battleship. I look at it in earlier versions in RTW2 and find only timing difference of classifications.
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Post by aeson on Oct 28, 2019 10:40:40 GMT -6
I think there is some magic with 12.5" belt for battlecruiser, sometimes being battlecruiser, sometimes battleship. I look at it in earlier versions in RTW2 and find only timing difference of classifications.
It's not only timing: Exact same turn, exact same armor protection, exact same speed, exact same secondary armament, and a main armament that differs only in the number of turrets into which it's grouped, and yet identified as different types of ship.
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Post by dizzy on Oct 28, 2019 10:56:50 GMT -6
aeson, good find. Ya, it's an esoteric system for sure.
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Post by pashahlis on Oct 28, 2019 12:17:22 GMT -6
Also, I put together a partial list of classification requirements for Rule the Waves v1.34b1 here; while it is neither complete for that game nor entirely accurate for Rule the Waves 2, it'll give you some idea of what's allowed.
Where? |
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Post by polishkruk on Oct 28, 2019 13:14:46 GMT -6
I keep the manual open to the image they discussed ship classes. But even those are still guidelines. The only thing I can consistently design that I know what it will be is a destroyer. My CLs are armored cruisers and my armored cruisers end up being dreadnoughts. About the only thing I’ve gotten to work right is the battle cruiser classification. It’s a wonky system but consider it part of the fun.
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Post by aeson on Oct 28, 2019 16:10:41 GMT -6
Sorry, I appear to have forgotten to add the link. Here. |
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rdfox
New Member
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Post by rdfox on Nov 2, 2019 9:33:36 GMT -6
From my experience: Reengining a pre-dreadnought to have a (final) speed above 20 knots will result in it being classified as a battlecruiser, no matter what. A bit frustrating for those of us who like to have a fleet speed of 21 knots *and* keep their semi-dreadnought classes in service after they start building dreads...
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Post by aeson on Nov 2, 2019 15:09:37 GMT -6
From my experience: Reengining a pre-dreadnought to have a (final) speed above 20 knots will result in it being classified as a battlecruiser, no matter what. A bit frustrating for those of us who like to have a fleet speed of 21 knots *and* keep their semi-dreadnought classes in service after they start building dreads... The game cares about the design speed - i.e. what the machinery is rated for, not the actually-achievable service speed - for ship classification purposes. The specific boundary you're referring to is the limit of 22 knots on maximum design speed for predreadnought/semidreadnought battleship, which becomes 20 knots in service if you bulge the ship.
As to the complaint expressed, it's entirely possible that a ship designed for 21 knots might only make 20 knots in service, a one-knot difference in service speed isn't that significant in practice, and anyways if you still have predreadnoughts or semidreadnoughts in service then the computer probably does as well so limiting the dreadnoughts to the speed of the predreadnoughts and semidreadnoughts shouldn't impose any significant handicap on your fleet - and the computer's not going to rebuild its old ships to improve their service speeds. Beyond that, I personally don't feel that predreadnought/semidreadnought battleships are worth major engine rebuilds to match their service speed with that of at least the early dreadnoughts - early on, there's simply too many of the older ships to make increasing the battle line's speed with major engine rebuilds economically viable (especially if you're bulging them to improve their torpedo protection and so need to increase design speed by four or five knots to improve service speed by the two or three needed for a typical predreadnought or semidreadnought to hit 21 knots) while still trying to keep up in the dreadnought race; later on, rebuilding the engines of old ships might be more economically viable because the later dreadnoughts and superdreadnoughts and especially fast battleships are so much more expensive than early dreadnoughts and you're probably only considering rebuilds for the most modern of the remaining older battleships or have already rid yourself of all but a handful of them, but having your last four semidreadnoughts or whatever tagging along at the end of the battle line is not normally particularly useful in a clash between dreadnought- or especially superdreadnought-dominated fleets even if they're not limiting your battle line speed because they've become so much less combat-effective than modern battleships that they often almost may as well not be present.
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