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Post by dorn on Oct 28, 2019 5:40:02 GMT -6
Right now there is no disadvantage using V position instead of X position.
On top of that there are 3 possibilities to use V turret when X turret is not possible: a) on cruisers V position is possible even if superimposed X turret is not invented b) on destroyers V position is possible even if superimposed gun mounts on destroyers are not possible c) on armoured/heavy cruisers V position is possible even if superimposed gun mounts on CAs is not possible
Another advantage is that V position weight less than X position, V gun is not disabled destroyed by "event" disabling/destroing both turrets
All of this makes in RTW2 V turret the main option as it is better in every aspect and is not worse from X turret in anything.
I suggest following: 1. superimposed V position is unavailable on light cruisers till X position is invented - Enables superimposed X gun mounts on CL
2. superimposed V position is unavailable on destroyers till superimposed tech is developed - Enables superimposed gun mounts on DD 3. superimposed V position is unavailable on armoured/heavy cruisers till superimposed tech is developed - Enables superimposed turrets on CA
4. decrease substantially deck space used for AA guns when using V turret because of blast damage for V turret for positions between V and Y turret. 5. some other ideas to think about - may be some with more experience with naval construction: a) more expensive machinery in case of V turret as V magazine disrupt magazine space and some steam lines need to be around magazines. This mean needed cooling.
b) in case of V turret magazine hit has higher effect on disabling machinery with V turret as boilers and turbines are seperated and single hit has higher chance to disable all turbines or boilers vs. mixed stuff using X instead of V turret
After that V turret will have some real disadvantage as in real life.
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Post by janxol on Oct 28, 2019 9:43:01 GMT -6
The thing is that the superimposed gun mount on DD/CA/CL includes both B and X. So the V is the earlier way of getting the aft superimposed, which in my opinion is a good thing.
With that said I agree that V turret should receive some penalties compared to the X turret. I agree with deck space and machinery damage, not sure about machienryw eight (and don't know how that would be implemented). Perhaps also a narrower firing arc?
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Post by captainloggy on Oct 28, 2019 10:38:07 GMT -6
Deck space is already reduced when using V, it is also incompatible with cross-deck fire.
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Post by aeson on Oct 28, 2019 11:12:24 GMT -6
Deck space is already reduced when using V Certain of that, are you? Sure, it's less than you'd have if you only used three turrets, but ABVY doesn't look like it has any less deck space for AA weapons than ABXY.
Mind you, given where 20mm and 40mm AA guns ended up getting placed on for example the Iowas, I'm less than convinced that potential blast damage from V turret would've significantly impeded the placement of such guns on the deck between the rear two turrets - there are some AA positions almost literally under the muzzles of the main guns: |
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Post by janxol on Oct 28, 2019 12:24:44 GMT -6
Deck space is already reduced when using V Certain of that, are you?
Sure, it's less than you'd have if you only used three turrets, but ABVY doesn't look like it has any less deck space for AA weapons than ABXY.
Mind you, given where 20mm and 40mm AA guns ended up getting placed on for example the Iowas, I'm less than convinced that potential blast damage from V turret would've significantly impeded the placement of such guns on the deck between the rear two turrets - there are some AA positions almost literally under the muzzles of the main guns: That's because open AA positions were never meant to be used at the same time as main battery guns. The crews would take shelter during surface action. We do know that in the game it's possible to be under air attack and gunfire at the same time, but as far as I know that possibility wasn't considered IRL and all non-DP and non-AA guns were considered to not be operating when AA positions are in use. The blast wouldn't damage the position themselves, but anyone who mans them would possibly die from overpressure and at the very least the eardrums would burst, possibly some internal bleeding in the eyeball as well.
Fun fact: When Nelson fired main battery guns a person below deck in the front section reported a bright red flash. That was in fact a concussion of the person's eyeballs caused by gunfire.
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Post by captainloggy on Oct 28, 2019 12:46:51 GMT -6
Oh, my mistake. It actually doesn't influence deck space whether you have V or X. I thought I remembered it, though, perhaps it was that way in a previous patch. Fully enclosed AA turrets might resist the blast, but maybe Iowa simply doesn't (or didn't) have those arcs, also due to the catapult and cranes. At high elevations, however, this shouldn't be an issue.
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Post by Fredrik W on Oct 30, 2019 13:27:30 GMT -6
Thanks for the suggestions. Actually, superimposed V started out as a purely visual thing to enable ships in SAI of the Tiger and Derfflinger look. It was unintentional that there should be advantages to it in RTW, so I agree the advantages of V should be nerfed.
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Post by dizzy on Oct 30, 2019 13:40:53 GMT -6
I agree the advantages of V should be nerfed. NO!!!!! Ok, maybe a small itty bitty nerf? |
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Post by dorn on Oct 30, 2019 17:36:00 GMT -6
I agree the advantages of V should be nerfed. NO!!!!! Ok, maybe a small itty bitty nerf? I am not expert on that topic, but V turret was for capital ship reasonable soluton used mainly by Royal Navy and Kaiserliche Marine, used mainly for battlecruisers (Kongo is British design). At that time battlecruisers were much longer compare to their weight than battleship and solution using V turret solved hull stress issue. As both navies expected that their ships will fight in line superimposed turret were not originally needed (Lion class). But as technology improves the issue with hull stress was not so important and other advantages of X turret was more important.
V turret was used on some cruisers because there were 2 guns aft after V turret on lower deck, but it was used quite later.
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