How did this Battleship sink in 22 minutes?

[dizzy]

Ship is a 62,000 ton Battleship built in 1941 with AoN armor, TP Level 4 and I have Level 20 or 22 damage control and flooding technology. Ship is not overweight.


Onverschrokken.gif (134.42 KB)

I'm not often shocked when ships sink. You get a warning... a ship will detach, you see notices ship is limiting flooding and the damage bar turns red. All this gives you time to slow speed and get a ship back to port. But in this case, I was totally caught off guard. When the notice came up that this battleship just stopped in the water and was sinking, I couldn't believe it. I've never seen a ship with so little battle damage sink as fast as this one did. Below are the telltale signs of trouble which generally started at 20:19 when she detaches, after which only 22 minutes pass before she goes under. How in the hell did this ship sink so quickly? I've listed the only torpedo hit she took along with any armor penetration hits and then the entire damage log. Let me know what you think, please!

Basically, Ten total "Limits flooding!" warnings, 1 torpedo, five Heavy hits, 7 Medium hits and five Light hits sunk this BB. This is insane. I've NEVER seen anything like it in all the battles I've fought. Please, someone explain it to me.

[/b] (BB Hood, HE)
19:35 5 in 3861 yds Fore/aft hull hit * (DD Scorpion, HE)
20:18 4 in 2506 yds Hull hit BE * (Battery 40, AP)
20:19 12 in 2147 yds Superstructure hit BE * (Battery 40, HE)
20:19 Detaches because of heavy flooding.
20:20 12 in 1905 yds Hull hit BE * (Battery 40, HE)
[/ul]
Ship0HitCount=92
Ship0Hits0=20 14:45 Evading air attack!
Ship0Hits1=20 14:45 Torpedo (Ripon from CV Indefatigable)
Ship0Hits2=20 14:46 Evading air attack!
Ship0Hits3=20 14:47 Evading air attack!
Ship0Hits4=20 15:10 Evading air attack!
Ship0Hits5=20 15:11 Evading air attack!
Ship0Hits6=20 15:12 Evading air attack!
Ship0Hits7=¤20 17:23 Main battery scores 1 hit on TR Merchant 6
Ship0Hits8=¤20 19:17 Main battery scores 1 hit on DD Racoon
Ship0Hits9=¤20 19:19 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Racoon
Ship0Hits10=20 19:26 16 in 7804 yds Fore/aft hull hit * (BB Hood, HE)
Ship0Hits11=20 19:26 16 in 7804 yds Turret A hit T Turret disabled (BB Hood, HE)
Ship0Hits12=20 19:26 6 in 7804 yds Engine room hit B (BB Hood, HE)
Ship0Hits13=20 19:27 6 in 7369 yds Hull hit (BB Hood, HE)
Ship0Hits14=20 19:31 4 in 8885 yds Turret B hit T (BB Hood, HE)
Ship0Hits15=¤20 19:33 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Racoon
Ship0Hits16=20 19:35 Launches torpedo at CVL
Ship0Hits17=20 19:35 Launches torpedo at CVL
Ship0Hits18=20 19:35 Launches torpedo at CVL
Ship0Hits19=20 19:35 5 in 3861 yds Fore/aft hull hit * (DD Scorpion, HE)
Ship0Hits20=20 19:35 5 in 3861 yds Hull hit (DD Scorpion, HE)
Ship0Hits21=20 19:35 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits22=20 19:36 Launches torpedo at Unidentified ship
Ship0Hits23=20 19:36 Launches torpedo at Unidentified ship
Ship0Hits24=20 19:36 5 in 4156 yds Secondary battery hit * (DD Scorpion, HE)
Ship0Hits25=¤20 19:36 Secondary battery scores 3 hits on AMC Merchant 24
Ship0Hits26=20 19:37 Turret A back in action!
Ship0Hits27=20 19:38 Launches torpedo at Unidentified ship
Ship0Hits28=20 19:38 Launches torpedo at Unidentified ship
Ship0Hits29=20 19:39 5 in 3266 yds Turret X hit T (AMC Merchant 24, AP)
Ship0Hits30=¤20 19:39 Main battery scores 1 hit on AMC Merchant 24
Ship0Hits31=¤20 19:40 Main battery scores 2 hits on AMC Merchant 24
Ship0Hits32=20 19:47 6 in 13594 yds Turret X hit T (DD Amazon, HE)
Ship0Hits33=¤20 19:48 Main battery scores 1 hit on DD Amazon
Ship0Hits34=¤20 19:51 Main battery scores 3 hits on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits35=¤20 19:51 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits36=¤20 19:52 Main battery scores 6 hits on DD Wolverine
Ship0Hits37=¤20 19:52 Secondary battery scores 10 hits on DD Wolverine
Ship0Hits38=¤20 19:53 Secondary battery scores 3 hits on DD Wolverine
Ship0Hits39=¤20 19:54 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Wolverine
Ship0Hits40=¤20 19:56 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits41=¤20 19:56 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Wolverine
Ship0Hits42=¤20 19:57 Main battery scores 3 hits on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits43=¤20 19:57 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits44=¤20 19:58 Main battery scores 3 hits on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits45=¤20 19:58 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits46=¤20 19:59 Main battery scores 2 hits on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits47=¤20 20:00 Main battery scores 2 hits on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits48=¤20 20:00 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits49=¤20 20:01 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits50=¤20 20:02 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits51=¤20 20:03 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits52=20 20:04 Launches torpedo at CVL Premier-class
Ship0Hits53=20 20:04 Launches torpedo at CVL Premier-class
Ship0Hits54=¤20 20:04 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits55=¤20 20:05 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits56=¤20 20:06 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits57=¤20 20:07 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits58=20 20:14 12 in 4855 yds Turret A hit TT (Battery 40, HE)
Ship0Hits59=¤20 20:15 Secondary battery scores 2 hits on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits60=20 20:16 4 in 3777 yds Superstructure hit * (Battery 40, HE)
Ship0Hits61=20 20:17 4 in 3265 yds Superstructure hit * (Battery 40, AP)
Ship0Hits62=20 20:18 4 in 2506 yds Hull hit BE * (Battery 40, AP)
Ship0Hits63=¤20 20:18 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits64=20 20:19 12 in 2147 yds Superstructure hit BE * (Battery 40, HE)
Ship0Hits65=20 20:19 Detaches because of heavy flooding.
Ship0Hits66=20 20:20 12 in 1905 yds Hull hit BE * (Battery 40, HE)
Ship0Hits67=20 20:20 4 in 1905 yds Superstructure hit * (Battery 40, AP)
Ship0Hits68=¤20 20:21 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits69=¤20 20:23 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits70=¤20 20:25 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on Battery 40
Ship0Hits71=20 20:25 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits72=¤20 20:26 Main battery scores 1 hit on Battery 40
Ship0Hits73=20 20:26 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits74=¤20 20:27 Main battery scores 3 hits on Battery 40
Ship0Hits75=20 20:27 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits76=¤20 20:28 Main battery scores 1 hit on Battery 40
Ship0Hits77=¤20 20:28 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on Battery 40
Ship0Hits78=20 20:28 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits79=20 20:29 High speed increases flooding!
Ship0Hits80=¤20 20:30 Main battery scores 4 hits on Battery 40
Ship0Hits81=¤20 20:31 Main battery scores 2 hits on Battery 40
Ship0Hits82=20 20:32 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits83=¤20 20:33 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits84=¤20 20:35 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits85=20 20:35 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits86=20 20:36 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits87=¤20 20:37 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits88=¤20 20:37 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits89=20 20:37 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits90=20 20:41 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits91=20 20:42 Sinking through progressive flooding.

[aeson]

I'd venture to guess that the torpedo hit at 14:45, the 16" fore/aft hull hit at 19:26, and the 12" Hull BE hit at 20:20 caused significant flooding, exacerbated by high speed and damage elsewhere. Also, Crew Quality has a significant impact on damage control, and your ship's Crew Quality is about as bad as it can get.

[dizzy]

You'd think they'd know how to shut a watertight door! Morons!

Ok, aeson , makes sense. Here's my more colorful answer. The torpedo blew off the lower front of the ship exposing the AoN armored bulkhead behind the fore section. Then a series of heavy shells penetrated that exact spot going down through the length of the ship compromising the bulkheads along the way. Despite the fair effort by the crew, they failed to act fast enough and close the water tight doors which allowed too much flooding in the forward part of the ship. Combined with high speed, the rest of the damage control efforts were futile resulting in the ship's aft section rising completely out of the water. As the forward turret dipped below the waves, water poured through the forward decks. Then an explosion from shifting ordnance blew the ship apart forward of Turret B. Quickly capsizing, she went straight down in a matter of just a few minutes with the loss of nearly her entire crew.

Rest in peace Onverschrokken! You were a magnificent ship!


74b2cbb9e2bb003c35b3c0fff67ba214.jpg (82.98 KB)

[dorn]

dizzy

Compare it to HMS Prince of Wales. After she was hit and her officer restarted shaft she was almost sinking conditions. Futher damage made her sink however she receiver did not need much more damage to sink.

It is quite comparable with your damage.
Your report shows me how nicely RTW2 simulated in abstracted ways all the issue and makes good similarities with real history.
If you look at battleships sinking in WW2 there are a lot examples of golden hit.

[orkel]

HE into the fore/aft hull seems to cause extreme flooding no matter the ship. I had a similar size BB get sunk by a CV's 5 inch secondaries spamming HE into the fore/aft, which took the floatation damage to max.

[alkiap]

An AoN scheme should have enough reserve buoyancy in the citadel to ensure the ship remains afloat even if the unarmored ends are flooded.
However, your ship's reserve was already affected by the original torpedo hit, so the cumulative flooding simply went beyond the limit when you took those fore/aft hits
It is interesting, however, that your flooding is 3622.. that is a huge amount of water pouring in for so few hits. The last HE must have been quite a critical.
Given the randomness of warfare, a very unlucky result, but then again, it's the "golden bbs" that people remember.. non critical hits, both in games and in reality, make much less of an impression

[director]

dizzy - For my part, I suspect the various hits exposed flaws in the underwater protection. No fault there, all ships have them because they are designed to minimize certain kinds of damage, not all.

Combine that with high speed forcing water into the hull, and incorrect responses from damage control either from lack of training, power loss in key areas (like to pumps) or bad communication/information, and I think she possibly capsized. See 'Kirishima', 'Shinano' and 'Taiho' for examples of what can happen when things go wrong... 'Prince of Wales' is another example of a good ship done in by what should have been survivable damage, as dorn notes. 'Titanic' wasn't done in by a torpedo but by small penetrations over a long length of hull. That HE hit from 'Hood' likely opened up a lot of the unarmored area with fragments and the flooding from the torpedo hit did the rest.

So you have a German battleship done in by a single torpedo from an aircraft carrier... and a single hit from 'Hood'? Wow - the irony is strong with this one!

[oldpop2000]

Oct 30, 2019 20:41:42 GMT -6 dizzy said:

Ship is a 62,000 ton Battleship built in 1941 with AoN armor, TP Level 4 and I have Level 20 or 22 damage control and flooding technology. Ship is not overweight.




I'm not often shocked when ships sink. You get a warning... a ship will detach, you see notices ship is limiting flooding and the damage bar turns red. All this gives you time to slow speed and get a ship back to port. But in this case, I was totally caught off guard. When the notice came up that this battleship just stopped in the water and was sinking, I couldn't believe it. I've never seen a ship with so little battle damage sink as fast as this one did. Below are the telltale signs of trouble which generally started at 20:19 when she detaches, after which only 22 minutes pass before she goes under. How in the hell did this ship sink so quickly? I've listed the only torpedo hit she took along with any armor penetration hits and then the entire damage log. Let me know what you think, please!

Basically, Ten total "Limits flooding!" warnings, 1 torpedo, five Heavy hits, 7 Medium hits and five Light hits sunk this BB. This is insane. I've NEVER seen anything like it in all the battles I've fought. Please, someone explain it to me.

[/b] (BB Hood, HE)
19:35 5 in 3861 yds Fore/aft hull hit * (DD Scorpion, HE)
20:18 4 in 2506 yds Hull hit BE * (Battery 40, AP)
20:19 12 in 2147 yds Superstructure hit BE * (Battery 40, HE)
20:19 Detaches because of heavy flooding.
20:20 12 in 1905 yds Hull hit BE * (Battery 40, HE)
[/ul]
Ship0HitCount=92
Ship0Hits0=20 14:45 Evading air attack!
Ship0Hits1=20 14:45 Torpedo (Ripon from CV Indefatigable)
Ship0Hits2=20 14:46 Evading air attack!
Ship0Hits3=20 14:47 Evading air attack!
Ship0Hits4=20 15:10 Evading air attack!
Ship0Hits5=20 15:11 Evading air attack!
Ship0Hits6=20 15:12 Evading air attack!
Ship0Hits7=¤20 17:23 Main battery scores 1 hit on TR Merchant 6
Ship0Hits8=¤20 19:17 Main battery scores 1 hit on DD Racoon
Ship0Hits9=¤20 19:19 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Racoon
Ship0Hits10=20 19:26 16 in 7804 yds Fore/aft hull hit * (BB Hood, HE)
Ship0Hits11=20 19:26 16 in 7804 yds Turret A hit T Turret disabled (BB Hood, HE)
Ship0Hits12=20 19:26 6 in 7804 yds Engine room hit B (BB Hood, HE)
Ship0Hits13=20 19:27 6 in 7369 yds Hull hit (BB Hood, HE)
Ship0Hits14=20 19:31 4 in 8885 yds Turret B hit T (BB Hood, HE)
Ship0Hits15=¤20 19:33 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Racoon
Ship0Hits16=20 19:35 Launches torpedo at CVL
Ship0Hits17=20 19:35 Launches torpedo at CVL
Ship0Hits18=20 19:35 Launches torpedo at CVL
Ship0Hits19=20 19:35 5 in 3861 yds Fore/aft hull hit * (DD Scorpion, HE)
Ship0Hits20=20 19:35 5 in 3861 yds Hull hit (DD Scorpion, HE)
Ship0Hits21=20 19:35 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits22=20 19:36 Launches torpedo at Unidentified ship
Ship0Hits23=20 19:36 Launches torpedo at Unidentified ship
Ship0Hits24=20 19:36 5 in 4156 yds Secondary battery hit * (DD Scorpion, HE)
Ship0Hits25=¤20 19:36 Secondary battery scores 3 hits on AMC Merchant 24
Ship0Hits26=20 19:37 Turret A back in action!
Ship0Hits27=20 19:38 Launches torpedo at Unidentified ship
Ship0Hits28=20 19:38 Launches torpedo at Unidentified ship
Ship0Hits29=20 19:39 5 in 3266 yds Turret X hit T (AMC Merchant 24, AP)
Ship0Hits30=¤20 19:39 Main battery scores 1 hit on AMC Merchant 24
Ship0Hits31=¤20 19:40 Main battery scores 2 hits on AMC Merchant 24
Ship0Hits32=20 19:47 6 in 13594 yds Turret X hit T (DD Amazon, HE)
Ship0Hits33=¤20 19:48 Main battery scores 1 hit on DD Amazon
Ship0Hits34=¤20 19:51 Main battery scores 3 hits on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits35=¤20 19:51 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits36=¤20 19:52 Main battery scores 6 hits on DD Wolverine
Ship0Hits37=¤20 19:52 Secondary battery scores 10 hits on DD Wolverine
Ship0Hits38=¤20 19:53 Secondary battery scores 3 hits on DD Wolverine
Ship0Hits39=¤20 19:54 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Wolverine
Ship0Hits40=¤20 19:56 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits41=¤20 19:56 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Wolverine
Ship0Hits42=¤20 19:57 Main battery scores 3 hits on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits43=¤20 19:57 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits44=¤20 19:58 Main battery scores 3 hits on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits45=¤20 19:58 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits46=¤20 19:59 Main battery scores 2 hits on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits47=¤20 20:00 Main battery scores 2 hits on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits48=¤20 20:00 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits49=¤20 20:01 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Hunter
Ship0Hits50=¤20 20:02 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits51=¤20 20:03 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits52=20 20:04 Launches torpedo at CVL Premier-class
Ship0Hits53=20 20:04 Launches torpedo at CVL Premier-class
Ship0Hits54=¤20 20:04 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits55=¤20 20:05 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits56=¤20 20:06 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits57=¤20 20:07 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits58=20 20:14 12 in 4855 yds Turret A hit TT (Battery 40, HE)
Ship0Hits59=¤20 20:15 Secondary battery scores 2 hits on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits60=20 20:16 4 in 3777 yds Superstructure hit * (Battery 40, HE)
Ship0Hits61=20 20:17 4 in 3265 yds Superstructure hit * (Battery 40, AP)
Ship0Hits62=20 20:18 4 in 2506 yds Hull hit BE * (Battery 40, AP)
Ship0Hits63=¤20 20:18 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits64=20 20:19 12 in 2147 yds Superstructure hit BE * (Battery 40, HE)
Ship0Hits65=20 20:19 Detaches because of heavy flooding.
Ship0Hits66=20 20:20 12 in 1905 yds Hull hit BE * (Battery 40, HE)
Ship0Hits67=20 20:20 4 in 1905 yds Superstructure hit * (Battery 40, AP)
Ship0Hits68=¤20 20:21 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits69=¤20 20:23 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits70=¤20 20:25 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on Battery 40
Ship0Hits71=20 20:25 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits72=¤20 20:26 Main battery scores 1 hit on Battery 40
Ship0Hits73=20 20:26 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits74=¤20 20:27 Main battery scores 3 hits on Battery 40
Ship0Hits75=20 20:27 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits76=¤20 20:28 Main battery scores 1 hit on Battery 40
Ship0Hits77=¤20 20:28 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on Battery 40
Ship0Hits78=20 20:28 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits79=20 20:29 High speed increases flooding!
Ship0Hits80=¤20 20:30 Main battery scores 4 hits on Battery 40
Ship0Hits81=¤20 20:31 Main battery scores 2 hits on Battery 40
Ship0Hits82=20 20:32 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits83=¤20 20:33 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits84=¤20 20:35 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits85=20 20:35 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits86=20 20:36 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits87=¤20 20:37 Main battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits88=¤20 20:37 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on CVL Nabob
Ship0Hits89=20 20:37 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits90=20 20:41 Limits flooding!
Ship0Hits91=20 20:42 Sinking through progressive flooding.

[/quote]I just thought I would put my five cents into this discussion (inflation). First, all ships..... ALL ships are compromises in design whether they are warships or liners. For warships, you balance hull structure, armor protection, ordnance storage and protection and firepower. You also have to factor in speed and maneuverability which are important. Now, here my copy of your design and I have circled where I believe many of the problems start with this ship. I suggest that you remove the torpedo tubes because their location compromises the all or nothing armor scheme. Even an HE shell which might be exploded on the deck is going to ignite the torpedo tubes, if they are loaded which they usually are. This added explosive combination will compromise the torpedo bulge and the counterflooding spaces. It will also make the ship, vulnerable to other shells after this explosion occurs. If this is 1941, then each torpedo is about 1900 lbs. or about 1 ton of very high explosive chemicals. You have 18 torpedo tubes. Now, if each torpedo has 617 lbs. of Hexanite, that is 11.706 lbs or 5.5 tons of that highly explosive chemical. Hexanite is just an example, it was obsolete by 1941 and more highly explosive material was used. So it was probably worse.

[rimbecano]

If an onboard detonation of his own torpedoes was the problem, it would show up in the logs.

[oldpop2000]

Oct 31, 2019 12:33:42 GMT -6 rimbecano said:

If an onboard detonation of his own torpedoes was the problem, it would show up in the logs.

Are we absolutely certain that the log will reveal everything? If we are not, and its possible, then those torpedo tubes might not be secondary explosions that the log will record. I've submitted a question.

[mycophobia]

This is probably most flooding I've ever seen on any ship...

I have a feeling that the game somehow keep track of hit received and "weakens" particular region of a ship, making further damage worse. I've recently had a battle where 6" HE repeatedly penetrated 2.5" of turret top, disabling the turrets and even causing a flashfire. Said turrets were all hit and penetrated by 16", but only disabled rather than destroyed.

Also, it seems fore/aft hull hit on a undamaged ship usually don't cause much flooding, which makes sense since they are not hitting the citadel area of the ship, but hit to the region on a heavily damaged ship a potentially compromised transverse bulkhead are probably far worse.

It seems what sealed the deal was the 12" coastal battery hit that lead to tremendous flooding immediately. I think the "last straw" on a already compromised, but not yet dangerous hull was what did her in.

[tortugapower]

N.B. for aeson and dizzy -- I'm not sure this was already covered, but crew quality decreases upon taking damage. It's unlikely (or at least not certain) that the crew quality was -1 beforehand.

[kriegsmeister]

This reminds me of this suggestion
nws-online.proboards.com/thread/3653/flooding-reports-increased-detail
Would be really helpful in diagnosing what truly killed this ship

[aeson]

Oct 31, 2019 16:47:56 GMT -6 tortugapower said:

N.B. for aeson and dizzy -- I'm not sure this was already covered, but crew quality decreases upon taking damage. It's unlikely (or at least not certain) that the crew quality was -1 beforehand.

My experience is that crew quality is mostly affected by bridge/conning tower hits, and unless I missed it the logs that dizzy posted don't show any of those. Also, the ship details window given for Onverschrokken shows very little structural damage and only a handful of hits, so crew quality loss to general damage seems unlikely to have been significant.

[dizzy]

Oct 31, 2019 16:47:56 GMT -6 tortugapower said:

N.B. for aeson and dizzy -- I'm not sure this was already covered, but crew quality decreases upon taking damage. It's unlikely (or at least not certain) that the crew quality was -1 beforehand.

The crew quality was Fair to Poor. Like I said, this was a sudden and completely unexpected war with the United States and their allies the U.K. I wasn’t prepared. My carriers had barely any aircraft, most of my Battleships were mothballed, crew quality was horrid. This led to a string of catastrophes starting with no air cover on my part. My BB’s were hammered so hard that many of them sunk and the rest were in dock for 4 months or more. This led to a blockade, the invasion and loss of Norway due to their naval superiority and also Hong Kong. Had the war gone on any longer, Revolution likely would have been on the table. Fortunately, having been a supreme naval power for so many years, I totally bluffed the enemy into peace with no further border changes.

This has served as a lesson for me to being caught unprepared. I can imagine how much worse it could have been had I been sneak attacked. As it was, trying to maintain spending with the U.K. and the USA caused me to cut corners on defense and readiness and boy did I pay the price. Was a good lesson to learn. You guys should try the Netherlands mod. This campaign has been my favorite so far.