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Post by trifler on Nov 10, 2019 4:49:10 GMT -6
Starting with 12-in, quality 0, the ability to build coastal batteries "in turrets" appears in the build menu. These are better in some way. My guess has been that they are harder to destroy. They are certainly much more expensive to maintain.
Does anyone have any firm indication of what they do? Or, could we possibly get more information about them?
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Post by janxol on Nov 10, 2019 6:34:09 GMT -6
Any battery that is not in turrets consists of 4 single mounts. These always have 2" of armor (unless all the ones I looked at). The turreted battery consists of two twin mounts with armor depending on caliber, i remember having one with 14" turret armor. Not sure about range differences, AA defences (all batteries get them at some point, or even become DP themselves) or minelaying capability.
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Post by brygun on Nov 10, 2019 7:51:02 GMT -6
Can't be too helpful in their performance.
The big difficulty is in getting a tactical battle to engage them. I sometimes might put very few big guns at critical bases, like in my home zone or gibralter or other narrow.
So its hard to give feedback on their effectiveness.
Personal wish is they would add to the difficulty of enemy invasions. I tend to use 4" or 6" batteries to act more as spotters.
Related discussion: If you consider a ship to be guns, power plant and structure the battery is the full cost of the guns, a small portion of the power plant (they still need power) and a moderate cost of the structure for a "ship" that can't move.
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Post by janxol on Nov 10, 2019 7:52:49 GMT -6
Can't be too helpful in their performance. The big difficulty is in getting a tactical battle to engage them. I sometimes might put very few big guns at critical bases, like in my home zone or gibralter or other narrow. So its hard to give feedback on their effectiveness. Personal wish is they would add to the difficulty of enemy invasions. I tend to use 4" or 6" batteries to act more as spotters. Related discussion: If you consider a ship to be guns, power plant and structure the battery is the full cost of the guns, a small portion of the power plant (they still need power) and a moderate cost of the structure for a "ship" that can't move. Supposedly they do affect invasion chance. |
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Post by director on Nov 10, 2019 20:47:57 GMT -6
Here's one example, Fort Drum in Manila Bay. www.learning-history.com/fort-drum-philippines/Germany constructed some using turrets from 'Gneisenau' and some uncompleted heavy cruisers. Turreted shore batteries are simply better armored and perhaps have better fire control equipment. The game does not allow construction of 'disappearing' batteries like those that guarded the Panama Canal. |
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Post by trifler on Nov 10, 2019 21:45:05 GMT -6
- Do they all create the same size minefield?
- Does gun quality affect fortifications?
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Post by trifler on Nov 10, 2019 21:46:37 GMT -6
Any battery that is not in turrets consists of 4 single mounts. These always have 2" of armor (unless all the ones I looked at). The turreted battery consists of two twin mounts with armor depending on caliber, i remember having one with 14" turret armor. Not sure about range differences, AA defences (all batteries get them at some point, or even become DP themselves) or minelaying capability. Well, that is a large difference in armor then. How did you view how much turret armor it had? |
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Post by oldpop2000 on Nov 10, 2019 23:08:44 GMT -6
Well, as George Patton once said "Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of Man". Uh hum and that is the same man who attacked Metz, a fortification and the forts in the Hurtgen Forest. Many of them never fell until the end of the war. He incurred heavy casualties. So much for his thoughts.
San Diego has fortifications named Fort Rosecrans and Fort Guijarros. When I was little, every Monday the big guns would test fire off of the coast. I lived over 30 miles from them but I could hear them as clear as day. I've visited them including the observation Points. They are really interesting.
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Post by xt6wagon on Nov 11, 2019 4:25:23 GMT -6
WW1 proved fixed fortifications to be not worth the expense. Modern surveying make it all too easy to put rounds on target from beyond visual range or line of sight. Naval fortifications were already even more obsolete with the enemy both harder to hit and actually armored compared to a men hauling around a cannon on land.
They were most successful in WW2 when positions were highly concealed, and merely used for delay. For the expense, concealed MG bunkers proved to be the best coastal fortification being both a fraction of the cost of a Naval gun installation, and something not obvious to enemy ships and bombers.
Korea again showed that firing a large gun from shore at a ship is a way to commit suicide, not harm your enemy.
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Post by director on Nov 11, 2019 7:15:54 GMT -6
The trend was toward preparing sites that guns could be driven to, fired and then moved to a new site. That, and the 'disappearing' guns, whose recoil lowered them into a well for protection and reloading. Neither were much good against plunging fire, while fixed positions were. The famous defense of the Dardanelles against the British fleet showed the value of 'shoot and scoot' for land-based artillery.
By the end of WW1, fire control was getting better, gunnery ranges were longer and aircraft were (theoretically) available for spotting. So it was no longer true that 'one gun at land equals two at sea' as it had been in Nelson's day. That said, most navies were not good at providing fire support or taking out land batteries - its a slightly different set of skills than those needed for surface combat. The old 'Standard' US battleships were quite good at it, since that was most of what they did, while the newer fast BBs were used to shooting at moving targets and did not score as high on bombardment.
If I am not playing as Japan and have a possession in Asian waters, I heavily fortify my main fleet base. More than once I've had shore batteries sound the alarm and/or shoot up enemy ships, which can turn back an attack, focus it on the batteries instead of my ships, or at least give my ships a chance to get up steam and run.
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Post by cv10 on Nov 11, 2019 8:57:11 GMT -6
If I am not playing as Japan and have a possession in Asian waters, I heavily fortify my main fleet base. More than once I've had shore batteries sound the alarm and/or shoot up enemy ships, which can turn back an attack, focus it on the batteries instead of my ships, or at least give my ships a chance to get up steam and run. +1 If I'm playing as the USA, Manila Bay becomes the most fortified place on the face of the Earth. |
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Post by oldpop2000 on Nov 11, 2019 10:58:57 GMT -6
If I am not playing as Japan and have a possession in Asian waters, I heavily fortify my main fleet base. More than once I've had shore batteries sound the alarm and/or shoot up enemy ships, which can turn back an attack, focus it on the batteries instead of my ships, or at least give my ships a chance to get up steam and run. +1 If I'm playing as the USA, Manila Bay becomes the most fortified place on the face of the Earth. While that is certainly true, if a nation, like the Japanese land in the north, you can take it from behind. The Japanese took the whole area in less than a month. Bataan fell at the end of February. |
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Post by cv10 on Nov 11, 2019 11:00:23 GMT -6
+1 If I'm playing as the USA, Manila Bay becomes the most fortified place on the face of the Earth. While that is certainly true, if a nation, like the Japanese land in the north, you can take it from behind. The Japanese took the whole area in less than a month. Bataan fell at the end of February. I was speaking in game terms of repelling a surprise attack, not in real life terms. |
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Post by oldpop2000 on Nov 11, 2019 11:05:23 GMT -6
While that is certainly true, if a nation, like the Japanese land in the north, you can take it from behind. The Japanese took the whole area in less than a month. Bataan fell at the end of February. I was speaking in game terms of repelling a surprise attack, not in real life terms. I am aware of what you were saying, my point is that the game should try to reflect this problem for coastal defenses. They are vulnerable to attack from behind. Sorry I wasn't clear about my point. |
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Post by janxol on Nov 11, 2019 13:44:04 GMT -6
Any battery that is not in turrets consists of 4 single mounts. These always have 2" of armor (unless all the ones I looked at). The turreted battery consists of two twin mounts with armor depending on caliber, i remember having one with 14" turret armor. Not sure about range differences, AA defences (all batteries get them at some point, or even become DP themselves) or minelaying capability. Well, that is a large difference in armor then. How did you view how much turret armor it had? While in battle, right click on the battery installation. It will show you how it looks and how armored it is. |
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