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Post by garrisonchisholm on Mar 20, 2020 22:25:13 GMT -6
Since then I do not build AVs, and instead once I get 1100 ton destroyers every destroyer carries 1 floatplane. If I have to have a ship slowing down to launch and recover, I'd rather it is a high-acceleration DD than a larger ship. Set floatplane search priority and never* worry about searches again. * no guarantees or results are warrantied by GarrisonChisholm Ltd. page 57 of the manual: Each class of ship has limitations on how many floatplanes may be carried: - DDs and KEs cannot be equipped with floatplanes.
when the game was first released i equipped my KEs with floatplanes - until i read the manual and saw this
i think i mentioned it in the bug thread back then that i could equip KEs with floatplanes, and i *think* it was fixed? else the 'rule' has changed since the manual was last updated
Hm. I remember we had a conversation about exactly this, and the upshot was that it could be plausible that DDs could carry 1 float-plane, but not catapults. I actually didn't realize the rules said something different. My game practice has never changed, so I doubt there was ever a version where DDs couldn't hold floatplanes. I've never tried a KE, but if you say it could be done I believe it.
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Post by avimimus on Mar 21, 2020 11:13:43 GMT -6
Destroyers don't have enough deck area to be good platforms - but shouldn't a large (1100 ton to 1400 ton) KE be able to carry a float plane for patrol or ASW work? Sopwith Baby's were carried on Trawlers and Minesweepers so that they could use them as launch points to intercept Zeppelins. Even in later periods converted merchant ships were used to launch fighters by catapult (e.g. Hurricanes). Also, there were even motor launch based seaplane tenders developed in WWI.
Some more thoughts: - Having a floatplane present for spotting should significantly increase the accuracy of a ship's main guns, especially during shore bombardment. - Floatplanes should be about as effective at hitting ground targets (or ships) as a torpedo bomber would be in the level bombing role... if one makes it a priority one can have 600lb or 800lb bombs on floatplanes pretty early in the game. - AVs should also be very effective merchant raiders (as was the case historically). - AVs should boost ASW and minesweeping capabilities
Thinking about the aicraft themselves: - The fundamental disadvantage of float-planes is that they require much better weather to operate than conventional carrier aircraft do (I also suspect the amount of time required to retrieve a floatplane under operational conditions would be longer than is modelled). - The other disadvantage is a reduced top speed, as a floatplane has to have a lower density to be buoyant, and often has considerable drag from the struts used to keep the aircraft clear of the spray. There isn't really any other inherent downside once airborne.
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Post by avimimus on Mar 21, 2020 11:24:52 GMT -6
Amusingly, I just read that Submarine E.22 was used during WWI as an experimental forward Zeppelin intercept station... the submarine would stay on the surface until the Zepplin was spotted... it would then submerge and leave behind a pair of Sopwith Babies to go hunt the giant cylinder! Like a waterfowl carrying two babies on its back! ...and in case the 'motor launch' bit isn't believable... here are some photos of the smallets Seaplane lighters: www.warhistoryonline.com/featured/first-aircraft-carrier-restored.html...and there is mention here that four Dutch destroyers carried seaplane operationally (whereas American experiments with the practice were failures): www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/odd/
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Post by aeson on Mar 21, 2020 12:11:25 GMT -6
AVs should also be very effective merchant raiders (as was the case historically). I am not aware of any historical usage of vessels configured as seaplane tenders or seaplane carriers for commerce raiding.
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Post by avimimus on Mar 21, 2020 13:29:32 GMT -6
AVs should also be very effective merchant raiders (as was the case historically). I am not aware of any historical usage of vessels configured as seaplane tenders or seaplane carriers for commerce raiding.
SMS Wolf is probably the most famous example: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Wolf_(1913)www.filmothek.bundesarchiv.de/video/25706The floatplane was not only used to patrol for targets - but also dropped small bombs ahead of merchant ships (sometimes causing them to strike their colours and permitting them to be easily caught). While looking up that information I also found references to a later version of the floatplane she carried (the redesigned FF.49) being used to not only map minefields... but actually alighting on the water to inspect suspect vessels.
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Post by aeson on Mar 21, 2020 19:16:12 GMT -6
I am not aware of any historical usage of vessels configured as seaplane tenders or seaplane carriers for commerce raiding.
SMS Wolf is probably the most famous example: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Wolf_(1913)www.filmothek.bundesarchiv.de/video/25706The floatplane was not only used to patrol for targets - but also dropped small bombs ahead of merchant ships (sometimes causing them to strike their colours and permitting them to be easily caught). While looking up that information I also found references to a later version of the floatplane she carried (the redesigned FF.49) being used to not only map minefields... but actually alighting on the water to inspect suspect vessels. SMS Wolf is an armed merchant cruiser or auxiliary cruiser, not a seaplane carrier or a seaplane tender.
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Post by BathTubAdmiral on Mar 22, 2020 2:33:18 GMT -6
page 57 of the manual: Each class of ship has limitations on how many floatplanes may be carried: - DDs and KEs cannot be equipped with floatplanes.
when the game was first released i equipped my KEs with floatplanes - until i read the manual and saw this
i think i mentioned it in the bug thread back then that i could equip KEs with floatplanes, and i *think* it was fixed? else the 'rule' has changed since the manual was last updated
the manual has been updated - check the manual folder: RTW2 Game Manual 116.pdf check page 58, 97
yes, it does not make sense
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Post by JagdFlanker on Mar 22, 2020 5:22:10 GMT -6
page 57 of the manual: Each class of ship has limitations on how many floatplanes may be carried: - DDs and KEs cannot be equipped with floatplanes.
when the game was first released i equipped my KEs with floatplanes - until i read the manual and saw this
i think i mentioned it in the bug thread back then that i could equip KEs with floatplanes, and i *think* it was fixed? else the 'rule' has changed since the manual was last updated
the manual has been updated - check the manual folder: RTW2 Game Manual 116.pdf check page 58, 97
yes, it does not make sense ok, i always used the online manual which i just noticed is not updated
the manual in the game directory says only KEs may not have floatplanes
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Post by BathTubAdmiral on Mar 22, 2020 14:03:44 GMT -6
the manual in the game directory says only KEs may not have floatplanes
Not quite true ... :
page 58:
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Post by zardoz on Mar 25, 2020 8:57:25 GMT -6
I have to confess that I use AVs more or less never. I cannot remember that they helped in any way. I even cannot remember that they have spotted any ship. Is their onlky advantage that having one helps making progress on CV-research?
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Post by t3rm1dor on Mar 25, 2020 13:10:33 GMT -6
I tried once to make an Av/CL hybrid of 14000 tons, and the airplane complement it brings is useful for spotting (around 20 planes). The problem is that, while not being useless, it is completely outclassed by CVL and CV. Early AV are also more or less useless with their limited airplane complement and limited range, and later more capable ships come when you already has better alternatives.
Ps: what is the best way to upload pictures of ships from game? Can it be done directly or you need to use an external website?
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Post by rimbecano on Mar 25, 2020 14:47:39 GMT -6
I tried once to make an Av/CL hybrid of 14000 tons, and the airplane complement it brings is useful for spotting (around 20 planes). The problem is that, while not being useless, it is completely outclassed by CVL and CV. Early AV are also more or less useless with their limited airplane complement and limited range, and later more capable ships come when you already has better alternatives. AVs aren't meant to compete with CV(L)s, or really be combat vessels, per-se, at all: they're meant to offload aerial scouting work from your surface combatants, who in turn carry a floatplane or two to offload scouting work from your carriers (in case an AV isn't around). They also provide all aerial scouting before carriers are available. Of course, you always can forgo seaplanes in favor of scouting with carrier aircraft, as the US did to a large degree in WWII, but I prefer to reserve carrier capacity for the airstrike once the enemy is found.
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Post by aeson on Mar 25, 2020 19:16:55 GMT -6
Ps: what is the best way to upload pictures of ships from game? Can it be done directly or you need to use an external website? Images can be uploaded as attachments to the forum post, though they'll only show as a thumbnail image in your post, like this: To put a larger-scale image into your post, you'll either need to host the image at another website, or create the post with your uploaded image, open the image, copy the URL for the forum's copy of the image, and use that to insert the image into the post: I believe that doing the latter will mean that the image is only visible to those who are viewing the forum while logged in, but I may be mistaken about that.
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euchrejack
Full Member
Don't feed the Trolls. They just get bigger and more numerous.
Posts: 139
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Post by euchrejack on Mar 26, 2020 10:01:29 GMT -6
Since then I do not build AVs, and instead once I get 1100 ton destroyers every destroyer carries 1 floatplane. If I have to have a ship slowing down to launch and recover, I'd rather it is a high-acceleration DD than a larger ship. Set floatplane search priority and never* worry about searches again. * no guarantees or results are warrantied by GarrisonChisholm Ltd. page 57 of the manual: Each class of ship has limitations on how many floatplanes may be carried: - DDs and KEs cannot be equipped with floatplanes.
when the game was first released i equipped my KEs with floatplanes - until i read the manual and saw this
i think i mentioned it in the bug thread back then that i could equip KEs with floatplanes, and i *think* it was fixed? else the 'rule' has changed since the manual was last updated
Of course it's a bug, because a KE with floatplanes IS a AV.
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Post by broadsides on Mar 26, 2020 17:28:29 GMT -6
My father served on a seaplane tender. They were considered a notable command for an officer wanting to make Admiral because they were considered a carrier command and operated independently as their own Task Force. They were not used primarily as a strike type of force. 1 AV with several Destroyers as escorts would setup in areas of 'no land based air-power' to operate scout patrols. They would often be ahead and to the flanks of carrier groups seeking deserted island inlets and Atolls to set up and run reconnaissance patrols from areas that the enemy knew we had no airfields so they wouldn't be expecting 'eyes in the sky'. Around newly captured islands The tenders allowed aircraft to be rapidly deployed until land airfields could be built because their runways did not have to be constructed. They were a cost effective way to take the burden of scouting and ASW patrols over isolated areas and leave the fleet carriers free to concentrate on strike operations. In the Second World War, The German Navy did not operate any seaplane tenders, however, the Luftwaffe had nineteen seaplane tenders mostly converted from existing civilian tenders, and were capable of carrying 1-3 seaplanes.
My father's ship conducted one of the last seaplane operations of the US Navy in Vietnam. They operated patrols over the Mekong delta looking for insurgents transiting the area in small boats.
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