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Post by christian on Mar 27, 2020 12:37:36 GMT -6
something i noticed with my latest save despite how much i load my corvettes up with anti submarine equipment they seem to loose EVERY SINGLE FIGHT against submarines i have no idea why but id be interested to know if anyone else has the problem
(not intirely sure if its a bug since i am playing with a bit of mods)
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Post by BathTubAdmiral on Mar 28, 2020 0:22:54 GMT -6
I guess you are talking about the "Sub won spirited gun duel with escort"-event? Notice that this event (you're seeing it from the escort's side) is a special event, in which the sub always wins because that's the event. Didn't you really sink any subs at all, did you check the "Submarine warfare summary" each turn?
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Post by christian on Mar 28, 2020 2:47:59 GMT -6
I guess you are talking about the "Sub won spirited gun duel with escort"-event? Notice that this event (you're seeing it from the escort's side) is a special event, in which the sub always wins because that's the event. Didn't you really sink any subs at all, did you check the "Submarine warfare summary" each turn?
ah ok that makes sense it still feels a bit wierd to only get messages of korvettes being sunk
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Post by dorn on Mar 28, 2020 3:23:56 GMT -6
I guess you are talking about the "Sub won spirited gun duel with escort"-event? Notice that this event (you're seeing it from the escort's side) is a special event, in which the sub always wins because that's the event. Didn't you really sink any subs at all, did you check the "Submarine warfare summary" each turn?
ah ok that makes sense it still feels a bit wierd to only get messages of korvettes being sunk I make one test in war having different size of corvettes through war: 200 tons, 500 tons, 600 tons and 900 tons. Half of 600 tons was sunk, 1 500 tons and 1 900 tons. So question is if it is completely by luck or larger corvettes has higher chance to miss this event.
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Post by wknehring on Mar 28, 2020 5:08:53 GMT -6
It seems to depend on the main armament (and of course your ASW-tech, compared to enemies submarine-tech; and don´t underestimate the power of flying boats). I used to equip them (in the most cases 600ts) with 3" (later to 3"Qu1 DP) guns, some AA and one AA-director, large DC-storage and 2 K-guns. There were wars I lost with about a fourth of my corvettes. Later I started to build large corvettes as "colony gunboats" (about 900-1000ts with 5" guns and up to 4 K-guns and large DC-storage) and larger corvettes with 4" DP and heavier AA-armament (and also 4 K-guns...)- these ones win their fights. And, maybe, it has something to do with your firing controls- I stopped using "local only". And, I stopped using my old 500ts and 600ts DDs for TP-duties (normally built with 3" guns), instead I use my first ones with 4" guns, strip off all TT except one single tube and give them all possible ASW-weapons and some AA. Maybe these ones don´t get the "spirited gunduel event", but your ASW capacity increases significantly and they still are cheap. My experience is, submarines have a very hard time in RTW2, especially if there are many flying boats.
edit:
And what euchrejack said.
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euchrejack
Full Member
Don't feed the Trolls. They just get bigger and more numerous.
Posts: 139
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Post by euchrejack on Mar 28, 2020 5:09:15 GMT -6
Well, I think there is also an event where the Corvette sinks the sub in a spirited gun duel. If that never appears, it could be a problem.
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Post by dorn on Mar 28, 2020 5:27:08 GMT -6
Well, I think there is also an event where the Corvette sinks the sub in a spirited gun duel. If that never appears, it could be a problem. I have never had such event.
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Post by aeson on Mar 28, 2020 8:04:09 GMT -6
Well, I think there is also an event where the Corvette sinks the sub in a spirited gun duel. If that never appears, it could be a problem. I have never had such event. I have in RTW1; I don't think I've seen it in RTW2, though. When I experimented with this for RTW1 minesweepers, it appeared to me as though larger vessels were more likely to win gunnery engagements against submarines, but less likely to get engaged in gunnery duels with them in the first place and more likely to be torpedoed instead. I don't know if that's changed in RTW2; I haven't really experimented that much with KEs.
I cannot recall ever having seen a DD be involved in a "spirited gun duel with submarine" event; in my experience, they're either torpedoed or left alone.
I generally use 600t minesweeping 2x4"+4x3" KEs, which have thus far lost every gunnery duel with submarines that I can recall them getting involved in despite sometimes (including in my most recent game) having the most up-to-date fire control systems I can put on them. Between this and my experiences with minesweepers in RTW1, I suspect that the improvement you're seeing is more down to the increase in the size of the ship than to the improvement in its armament.
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Post by tmp on Aug 7, 2020 11:42:49 GMT -6
I do have to wonder exactly how a WW1 era submarine with a single gun and rudimentary fire control is supposed to win the "spirited gun duel" against this sort of opponent: (originally a destroyer, converted to KE through engine change and removal of torpedo tubes) it'd explain quite a few things if these events were simply triggered by a dice roll with random KE then chosen as victim, but if that's the case it'd perhaps use some re-consideration?
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Post by Antediluvian Monster on Aug 10, 2020 15:42:25 GMT -6
I don't think submarines as overwhelming rule had fire control beyond a gunsight and maybe a guy with binoculars to spot overs and unders... until those few late WW2 US subs that had dual 5" guns and basic radar FC.
Gunfights with armed escorts are a terrible idea. Some of the smaller guns (like 3") might have trouble penetrating the pressure hull but the sub's gundeck is still terribly exposed, even a single automatic AA gun could clear that deck of personnel. And particularly later on in the period with widespread wireless your position would be immediately reported and all kinds of nasties would be on their way. And if you did take damage to your pressure hull in the gunfight, good luck evading them.
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Post by wlbjork on Aug 10, 2020 21:01:13 GMT -6
If you could get close enough to use the automatic guns that is.
British M-class submarines mounted 12" guns, whilst there were a number of "cruiser submarines" built, many of which mounted dual guns. Further development of big-gun submarines was curtailed by the various naval treaties.
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Post by noshurviverse on Aug 10, 2020 21:21:01 GMT -6
I think the majority of people would agree that, with the exception of certain varieties of cruiser submarines that don't represent the norm and aren't represented in game, most submarines had little chance of winning gun duels against anything but the most crude ASW ships. I would say that if they player invests in corvettes that incorporate advanced fire control systems, armor and large gun batteries, they should not be lost to gun duels.
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Post by andrewm on Aug 11, 2020 6:21:56 GMT -6
On the other hand ignoring the precise wording of the message. The largest cause of ASW escorts being sunk was submarine attack, if we remove this random event then none of your ASW ships will ever be sunk by submarines , they will continually sink subs and suffer no attrition so reducing pressure on you to build more escorts during a way. A Quick google shows 175 escorts sunk in battle of atlantic for 783 subs. This suggests you should lose an escort for every 4 or 5 subs sunk and the current loss rate is generally lower than that. (Those figures include the air attacks on both sides so they are at best approximations)
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Post by oldpop2000 on Aug 11, 2020 7:05:35 GMT -6
There were 262 Allied warships hit by U-boats and 1154 U-boats sunk by all causes. 264 were sunk by ships, 250 by aircraft, 37 by combined air and sea, 46 missing, 43 air raids on ports, 35 to mines. There were also 238 scuttled, 155 surrendered and lot of miscellaneous.
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Post by rimbecano on Aug 11, 2020 7:57:31 GMT -6
You forgot "one sunk by its own toilet". :-)
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