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Post by christian on Apr 27, 2020 6:12:00 GMT -6
while SSMs werent part of the update they can be added with a slight edit to the researchareas2 file to add them (light to heavy) after a bit of experimenting it turns out you can make some pretty mental cruisers so far the max i could get was 20 double tube SSMs or a total of 40 missiles kirov 2 electric boogaloo gonna be interesting to see diffrent designs and ideas with missiles Attachments:
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Post by stevethecat on Apr 27, 2020 6:36:21 GMT -6
Will be interesting to see what effects the missiles have, and how they are used in combat, ala like main guns or torpedoes?
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Post by christian on Apr 27, 2020 7:35:49 GMT -6
Will be interesting to see what effects the missiles have, and how they are used in combat, ala like main guns or torpedoes? currently the AI automatically fires them at targets picked up by radar they fly super fast and have pretty good hitrates damage is VERY low but they act like fuel air bombs so they set stuff on fire (heavy SSMs have like 90-100% firechance once 5-8 have hit they go fire out of control abandon ship
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Post by eskimobrother319 on Apr 27, 2020 21:06:20 GMT -6
Holy smokes that pretty cheap per ship too.
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Post by dyermaker on Apr 27, 2020 22:36:58 GMT -6
Haha that second ship looks like it could start itself on fire if it launched all of those missiles at once!
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Post by skyhawk on May 9, 2020 13:53:03 GMT -6
I've yet to mod them in since I've yet to find out how. (Tips?) Are they able to be added to destroyers? Has anyone else tried them?
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Post by brygun on May 9, 2020 21:40:44 GMT -6
I suspect they will be highly broken at this stage as the devs haven't gotten the code to where they themselves were going to take them out of test status. I wouldnt be suprised in dev builds they have on-off switches for doing the test of the day. Doesnt mean its going to work probably and might crash or data corrupt your game.
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Post by christian on May 10, 2020 0:35:52 GMT -6
I've yet to mod them in since I've yet to find out how. (Tips?) Are they able to be added to destroyers? Has anyone else tried them? go to researchareas2 and replace the missile tech lines with this [Missile technology 19] PicName=Missile.jpg Guided bomb;1943;N;70;12;1900;Increases air attack effectiveness Early ASM;1943;N;60;10;1907;Enables air attacks with ASM Early SAM;1945;N;70;12;1905;Enables early SAM mounts Early SSM;1949;N;70;12;1901;Enables early SSM mounts Double SAM launchers;1953;Y;70;6;1909;Allows double SAM launchers Improved SAM;1954;N;70;12;1906;Increases SAM hit rate Reliable ASM;1955;N;70;12;1902;Increases ASM hit rate Light SAM;1955;N;70;12;1910;Enables light SAM mounts Heavy SAM;1955;N;70;12;1908;Enables heavy SAM mounts Improved guidance systems;1957;N;70;12;1904;Increases missile hit rate the new lines are Light SAM;1955;N;70;12;1910;Enables light SAM mounts Heavy SAM;1955;N;70;12;1908;Enables heavy SAM mounts Early SSM;1949;N;70;12;1901;Enables early SSM mounts they do work on destroyers so far i actually havent gotten a single error or anything like it from them and they seem to work perfectly except for the way they do damage so i have to say the devs did an amazing job even though its not supposed to be out yet
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berte
Full Member
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Posts: 109
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Post by berte on May 10, 2020 2:23:39 GMT -6
I hope they add cold and hot launch VLS systems!
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Post by tordenskjold on May 10, 2020 4:38:34 GMT -6
Uhm, it seems that those 24 tons per heavy SSM double launcher might be just a bit too optimistic. Consider e.g. this possible nightmare of the Adriatic:
(Yes, I cheated a bit regarding the technology available to Austria-Hungary in 1903... )
:EDIT: Oh, I see the point. In fact, there were quite a lot of small missile boats and corvettes since the 1960s, so it's probably no surprise that you can probably plant SSM launchers on anything that swims.
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Post by umbaretz on May 10, 2020 6:51:00 GMT -6
Uhm, it seems that those 24 tons per heavy SSM double launcher might be just a bit too optimistic. Consider e.g. this possible nightmare of the Adriatic:
(Yes, I cheated a bit regarding the technology available to Austria-Hungary in 1903... )
:EDIT: Oh, I see the point. In fact, there were quite a lot of small missile boats and corvettes since the 1960s, so it's probably no surprise that you can probably plant SSM launchers on anything that swims.
Project 183-R had 60-67 tons while carrying 2 AShM's (you can count it as one double heavy or medium mount, don't know what should be considered "Heavy" SSM by the game.), while the first one was built in 1957. So if anything, mounts may be too heavy for if counting late 1950ies tech. Or the reason is - it is a medium mount, but withouit reloads (now in modded game light and medium SSM mounts have missile reloads, while heavy dont'). Btw, I'm also experimenting with alt history design, and putting a lot of missiles on corvetttes doesn't do much good, since they are becoming expensive and are rarely controllable in battles, so I just give them on medium or heavy double SSM mount, for opportunistic launches. You can built short-range 200-300 ton DDs with one torpedo, though, with enough tonnage for some launchers, and they would be much closer to RIL missile boats. (but times slower)
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Post by nuclearnadal on May 11, 2020 9:22:10 GMT -6
By changing the date in the replaced lines of code, does this allow for an earlier/later date? Does this apply to both research areas 1 and 2?
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Post by DrunkSailor on May 11, 2020 9:44:56 GMT -6
By changing the date in the replaced lines of code, does this allow for an earlier/later date? Does this apply to both research areas 1 and 2? Yes changing the year will affect when this tech becomes available for research. It also depends on how many techs of the same category are available the same year or perhaps the previous year (so your research have enough time to accumulate enough research points), the rate of research you have chosen at the beginning of the game (100% or less), how technologically advanced or backwards is the nation you play, the percentage of budget you have allocated for research and of course your overall budget. All the above conditions might make a specific tech available even earlier than the year indicated or perhaps later.
The file relative to research is the "ResearchAreas2.dat". The file "ResearchAreas.dat" is a leftover from RtWI, simply ignore it.
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Post by tordenskjold on May 12, 2020 3:19:05 GMT -6
So, after about 3-4 days of testing, it appears that SSMs (in their present, "unofficial" form) have a huge effect on the balance of the game. It appears just too easy to cram as many launchers as possible on even the smalles ships, neglect guns and possibly also armor and then just watch your fleet launching flocks of missiles at approaching enemies at radar distance, which effectively cripples them usually even beyond coming within gun range. In the outcome, the enemy fleets usually were virtually annihilated - my fleet hardly suffered any losses, only from mines or submarines at best. This also holds for even the worst initial conditions in a battle, i.e. it's easily possible to gain total wins with a handful of missile-armed light cruisers and destroyers vs. several squadrons of BBs. I admit again that these are the observations from a game in which I just enabled all technology early on by save-editing, but still: Even in the 1940s and with technology percolating to the other navies by selling or espionage, the outcome does not change (it will probably once the AI starts using missiles as well, but time hasn't proceeded this far right now). Austria-Hungary is easily ruling the waves thanks to massive fielding of SSMs. So yes, leading in this technology will definitely give any navy a decisive edge. Still, some questions I was not able to answer. For example, I have only observed the "ultimate" potential of SSMs. I thus cannot tell how "early" SSMs play out. They might probably be less accurate and heavier to mount, effectively offering less "destructive power per weight" and thus should be less easily have guns turned in for them. Also, I obviously have not yet had the experience of these things being fired at me, so I also can't tell what the actual exchange ratio of missiles vs. missiles might be. However, the most interesting question finally is how this tech might affect shipbuilding. How effective against SSMs is armor? It doesn't seem to be that important anymore, since it turned out that also BBs and BCs were not match for SSMs. Thus, it might indeed be tempting to save armor, weight and cost when concentrating on SSMs, which thus brings us to those rather light, unarmored ship designs typical for the Cold War.
:EDIT: Oh, and to underline that latter point, here's Austria-Hungary's very own rendition of a Slava-class lookalike:
:EDIT 2: Oh, and what I find convenient is that salvos of SSMs within a ship formation are apparently distributed among a number of possible targets, which guarantees that not all ships of that formation expend their missiles on one single ship, but are thus able to attack even larger formations all at once. In my current game as Japan (with save-editing all nations to maximum technology plus base resource multiplied by 10 - now the US has about 100 BCs in their fleet... unfortunately, so far [1925] no AI uses SSMs), this allowed even smaller formations of a handful of CAs and DDs to batter the usual medium-sized flock of 8-10 BBs and BCs plus their entourage.
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Post by dougphresh on May 14, 2020 9:45:25 GMT -6
I posted this in the SAM thread but this is a great breakdown of modelling SSM in a videogame. There are some very interesting things about missiles in the design document for John Tiller's naval campaigns. I thought I'd post here and see how closely that aligns with the design philosophy and implementation of the team here. I think their determination of the probability of hits is particularly interesting, and it seems to fit with the examples they provided. Anecdotally, being married to a SWO, SSMs have "changed the game" in naval warfare. Their weight and hit rate compared to naval guns really is a revolutionary change, maybe on the level of rifled breechloading guns compared to smoothbore muzzleloaders. The biggest problem in wrapping your head around this is that most of the literature is for specialists, and reading 400 page books on contemporary missiles is not particularly fun or interesting to people who aren't paid to do so and have their lives on the line. I'd put it in line with reading about WW2 air combat versus trying to parse literature on modern aerial combat. I understand that's how technological progression works, but it is not grog-friendly.
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