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Post by skyhawk on May 14, 2020 19:32:51 GMT -6
Ok I thought I was reasonably competent when it came to modding files and such but i'll be damned if I can find the .dat file for this thing.
I'm either blind or its gone into hiding. Help?
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Post by aeson on May 14, 2020 19:36:18 GMT -6
[Install directory]\Data\ResearchAreas2.dat
Create a backup copy before you modify it, just in case.
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Post by polygon on May 16, 2020 15:40:28 GMT -6
Will be interesting to see what effects the missiles have, and how they are used in combat, ala like main guns or torpedoes? currently the AI automatically fires them at targets picked up by radar they fly super fast and have pretty good hitrates damage is VERY low but they act like fuel air bombs so they set stuff on fire (heavy SSMs have like 90-100% firechance once 5-8 have hit they go fire out of control abandon ship If that's the intended damage model (and obviously it might not be, given that SSMs aren't officially a thing), it would seem that armored ships give little to no benefit against SSMs. That's...interesting. Probably makes late game BBGs even more useless than expected. Slightly disappointing but probably realistic. Do AA guns engage incoming missiles? They should, and with some effectiveness. There's not a huge difference between a termit missile and a kamakazi in a MiG 15.
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Post by umbaretz on May 16, 2020 16:07:36 GMT -6
There's not a huge difference between a termit missile and a kamakazi in a MiG 15. There are differences between Termit and MiG-15, since Termit is properly developped from ground-up AShM. At leas it's noticeably smaller. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KS-1_Komet, on the other hand is indeed a "conversion" of MiG-15. So later missiles may be harder to hit with everything equal.
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Post by christian on May 18, 2020 3:14:31 GMT -6
There are differences between Termit and MiG-15, since Termit is properly developped from ground-up AShM. At leas it's noticeably smaller. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KS-1_Komet, on the other hand is indeed a "conversion" of MiG-15. So later missiles may be harder to hit with everything equal. meant more in the damage department a mig15 carrying 2 100 kg bombs will most likely do about similar damage to a termit assuming the bombs penetrate and explode properly if not slightly less which as said is not a huge difference (mig15 has like twice the mass and fuel of a termit) the ks-1 has a big warhead but the plane itself is smaller than the mig15 by quite a bit (as in half the weight)
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Post by tordenskjold on May 18, 2020 6:46:57 GMT -6
In my current game it's about 1950 now and finally the all-tech'd AI also starts mounting SSMs. But so far they don't capitalize on this - currently, they've only built some DDs with one light SAM and two heavy SSM launchers, which in admittedly makes them much more dangerous. But from my observation, the key to success with SSMs is numbers. Yes, single SSM hits cause fires and flooding, but that can be repaired. This becomes critical only when multiple hits increase fire levels, which are also difficult to contain through the inherent additional structurual damage. So, I'm curious whether the AI takes this road or leaves it at those rather ineffective layouts with only few SSM launchers.
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Post by skyhawk on May 18, 2020 9:03:11 GMT -6
In my current game it's about 1950 now and finally the all-tech'd AI also starts mounting SSMs. But so far they don't capitalize on this - currently, they've only built some DDs with one light SAM and two heavy SSM launchers, which in admittedly makes them much more dangerous. But from my observation, the key to success with SSMs is numbers. Yes, single SSM hits cause fires and flooding, but that can be repaired. This becomes critical only when multiple hits increase fire levels, which are also difficult to contain through the inherent additional structurual damage. So, I'm curious whether the AI takes this road or leaves it at those rather ineffective layouts with only few SSM launchers. Still haven't gotten up to the proper years yet in my first mod'd game as I've been on a bit of a break. Would be interested in seeing the enemy DD design as well as a few of your own for comparison.
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Post by umbaretz on May 18, 2020 11:34:18 GMT -6
There are differences between Termit and MiG-15, since Termit is properly developped from ground-up AShM. At leas it's noticeably smaller. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KS-1_Komet, on the other hand is indeed a "conversion" of MiG-15. So later missiles may be harder to hit with everything equal. meant more in the damage department a mig15 carrying 2 100 kg bombs will most likely do about similar damage to a termit assuming the bombs penetrate and explode properly if not slightly less which as said is not a huge difference (mig15 has like twice the mass and fuel of a termit) the ks-1 has a big warhead but the plane itself is smaller than the mig15 by quite a bit (as in half the weight) I was talking more about actual dimensions, since they define difficulty to hit (when the speed is the same), and KSS is much bigger than Termit (both are definetely smaller than Mig-15 and harder to hit). Also, fuel isn't as an efficient source of damage as an equal warhead, but if we're counting addional ones - 560 kg engine slamming at 0.9 M can also be quite damaging for unarmoured ships.
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Post by tordenskjold on May 18, 2020 15:22:36 GMT -6
In my current game it's about 1950 now and finally the all-tech'd AI also starts mounting SSMs. But so far they don't capitalize on this - currently, they've only built some DDs with one light SAM and two heavy SSM launchers, which in admittedly makes them much more dangerous. But from my observation, the key to success with SSMs is numbers. Yes, single SSM hits cause fires and flooding, but that can be repaired. This becomes critical only when multiple hits increase fire levels, which are also difficult to contain through the inherent additional structurual damage. So, I'm curious whether the AI takes this road or leaves it at those rather ineffective layouts with only few SSM launchers. Still haven't gotten up to the proper years yet in my first mod'd game as I've been on a bit of a break. Would be interested in seeing the enemy DD design as well as a few of your own for comparison. Right now (haven't played on since then), the typical AI design looks like this:
Seems like these all are some sort of "standard" designs, i.e. a certain number of turrets and torpedo tubes. In some cases, the AI seems to sacrifice speed for a second light SAM mount. In total, these seem like the typical late-1950s designs of missile-armed DDs, like the Kanin or Farragut classes, yet with more artillery.
Opposed to this, I largely focus on SSMs, somehow neglecting guns and torpedos for these, and I somehow have neither researched nor edited light SAMs, so I leave air defence to HAA only.
Note also that the AI apparently doesn't go beyond 2200 ts. Maybe the comparison is a bit unfair this way. The Numakaze class in turn was the answer to another "build me 20 DDs" request, which I responded to by building those cheap missile boats with slower speed and a minimal artillery and torpedo armament. Building and maintenance costs of these are only about one third of those of the larger Shikinamis and Matsukazes. The latter of these was then again the most recent take of a missile-oriented armament. In this picture, the previously mentioned bug of some launcher disappearing after saving/loading the game can also be seen. (:EDIT: Oh, and apparently ASW is also delegated to other ship types, most notably derivatives of those ultra-cheap mini CVLs presented in the "experimental ship designs" thread)
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Post by christian on May 20, 2020 2:34:20 GMT -6
meant more in the damage department a mig15 carrying 2 100 kg bombs will most likely do about similar damage to a termit assuming the bombs penetrate and explode properly if not slightly less which as said is not a huge difference (mig15 has like twice the mass and fuel of a termit) the ks-1 has a big warhead but the plane itself is smaller than the mig15 by quite a bit (as in half the weight) I was talking more about actual dimensions, since they define difficulty to hit, and KSS is much bigger than Termit (both are definetely smaller than Mig-15 and harder to hit). Also, fuel isn't as an efficient source of damage as an equal warhead, but if we're counting addional ones - 560 kg engine slamming at 0.9 M can also be quite damaging for unarmoured ships. that was mostly what i was reffering to though the termit did have significant incendiary capabilities (fuel tank in front of warhead) like kamikazes
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Post by seawolf on May 22, 2020 20:03:03 GMT -6
It turns out that tube numbers aren't actually limited for SSMs. I've gone up to 60 and its working fine. Seems to be a better simulation too. Look at the torpedo mounts
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Post by tordenskjold on May 23, 2020 3:57:33 GMT -6
It turns out that tube numbers aren't actually limited for SSMs. I've gone up to 60 and its working fine. Seems to be a better simulation too. Look at the torpedo mounts How did you get that many tubes? In the editor, I can only place two tubes per mount...
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Post by wolfpack on May 25, 2020 3:31:32 GMT -6
i think if they allow 2-3in auto dp rifles to engage early ssm's and larger missiles like they historically could, maybe even add a fleet doctrine that sets the heavy guns to attempt to fire on incoming
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Post by seawolf on May 25, 2020 9:10:33 GMT -6
It turns out that tube numbers aren't actually limited for SSMs. I've gone up to 60 and its working fine. Seems to be a better simulation too. Look at the torpedo mounts How did you get that many tubes? In the editor, I can only place two tubes per mount... Editing the ship files
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Post by titanuranus on May 25, 2020 15:53:11 GMT -6
After playing with SSNs, two things are clear to me: 1. SSNs need to be backed up by guns for decisive results (so BBs/BCs are still needed) 2. SSNs really need better logic, or the ability to dictate targeting priorities. Right now ships empty their magazines at the first enemy in sight, an issue exacerbated by the apparent fact that missiles only cripple and kill over time.
EDIT: Contrary to everyone else, I think BBGs/“Arsenal Ships” are going to end up very useful. I think the 24 tons for Heavy SSMs is a placeholder value, and they will end up about as heavy as SAMs. If that’s the case, then BCGs will be in the sweet spot of high speed and high free weight. While still being heavily gun-armed to clean up stragglers. This assumes that missile mounts aren’t limited by fire control capabilities.
I would guess that the optimal fleet would be DDGs, CLGs (same reason as BCGs on a smaller scale), BCGs, and CVs + support ships.
If they remain recognizable, I see missiles as long ranged, highly accurate torpedoes.
The also are probably more useful that they appear on CVs, they will give them relatively light-weight defensive weapons so their constant turning into the wind won’t be such an issue.
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