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Post by brygun on Apr 27, 2020 18:55:40 GMT -6
Im 80% not 100% sure that the Suez canal is being used by non-owners during war. In my current game its owned by the UK.
During my war with Italy they could move directly to the Indian ocean.
During my current war with France the Im pretty sure they going from the Indian Ocean into the Med.
I thought it was that during wars those fighting couldnt use the Suez.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Apr 27, 2020 19:04:23 GMT -6
Im 80% not 100% sure that the Suez canal is being used by non-owners during war. In my current game its owned by the UK. During my war with Italy they could move directly to the Indian ocean. During my current war with France the Im pretty sure they going from the Indian Ocean into the Med. I thought it was that during wars those fighting couldnt use the Suez. The canal was owned by the UK and France until July 1956. So, during wars, the Axis powers were not allowed to use the canal. |
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Post by DrunkSailor on Apr 28, 2020 2:11:37 GMT -6
I thought it was that during wars those fighting couldnt use the Suez. Depends the level of tension between the combatant and the owner of the canal (France/Italy vs Britain). If it is low enough, the canal can be used regardless the fact France and/or Italy is at war with you. |
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Post by Antediluvian Monster on Apr 28, 2020 7:31:25 GMT -6
Russians used it for some of their forces during the Russo-Japanese War, so it's usage in war has historical basis to it. Arguably Russia had pretty high tensions with Britain to boot.
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Post by brygun on Apr 28, 2020 7:34:34 GMT -6
All right.
Seems my understanding of a game mechanic, possibly a manual wording, was inaccurate.
Query on what does the manual say?
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Post by oldpop2000 on Apr 28, 2020 7:56:08 GMT -6
Russians used it for some if their forces during the Russo-Japanese War, so it's usage in war has historical basis to it. Arguably Russia had pretty high tensions with Britain to boot. According to the official documentation of the Russo-Japanese War, the British were neutral and so was the canal and as such, the 2nd Pacific Fleet had to go around the Cape of Good Hope. There was an incident where the Baltic fleet fired on defenceless Hull fisherman. This incident created a diplomatic crisis with England. The Baltic fleet sailed to Tangier, but had to use the Good Hope route. |
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Post by hawkeye on Apr 28, 2020 8:49:39 GMT -6
Russians used it for some if their forces during the Russo-Japanese War, so it's usage in war has historical basis to it. Arguably Russia had pretty high tensions with Britain to boot. According to the official documentation of the Russo-Japanese War, the British were neutral and so was the canal and as such, the 2nd Pacific Fleet had to go around the Cape of Good Hope. There was an incident where the Baltic fleet fired on defenceless Hull fisherman. This incident created a diplomatic crisis with England. The Baltic fleet sailed to Tangier, but had to use the Good Hope route. Anyone who hasn't already done so really, really, REALLY has to watch Drachinifel's "The Russian 2nd Pacific Squadron - Voyage of the Damned" video on this. www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mdi_Fh9_Ag |
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Post by DrunkSailor on Apr 28, 2020 8:54:09 GMT -6
All right. Seems my understanding of a game mechanic, possibly a manual wording, was inaccurate. Query on what does the manual say? From the manual:
Canals and other choke points
There are two canals in the game, the Suez canal and the Panama canal. The Suez canal is operational at the start of the game, and is controlled by the nation owning Egypt (Britain at the start of the game). The Panama Canal will become operational in 1914, and is controlled by the player owning Panama (the USA at the start of the game).
Movement through canals is normally possible for other nations than the owning nation. During wartime, canals will be blocked for players at war with the owner, or if the tension level with the owner is 7 or higher.
So if you are at war with the owner of the canal, obviously you cannot pass. If you are at war with another nation and your tension level with the owner of the canal is up to 6, you can pass. I suppose the same rule applies for AI nations between them. Apparently France and Italy, although being at war with you, they both had less than 7 tension with Britain and they could pass through Suez canal.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Apr 28, 2020 8:57:56 GMT -6
According to the official documentation of the Russo-Japanese War, the British were neutral and so was the canal and as such, the 2nd Pacific Fleet had to go around the Cape of Good Hope. There was an incident where the Baltic fleet fired on defenceless Hull fisherman. This incident created a diplomatic crisis with England. The Baltic fleet sailed to Tangier, but had to use the Good Hope route. Anyone who hasn't already done so really, really, REALLY has to watch Drachinifel's "The Russian 2nd Pacific Squadron - Voyage of the Damned" video on this. www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mdi_Fh9_AgI've watch it, his material is very good. I have a subscription to his work. |
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Post by DrunkSailor on Apr 28, 2020 9:03:23 GMT -6
Russians used it for some if their forces during the Russo-Japanese War, so it's usage in war has historical basis to it. Arguably Russia had pretty high tensions with Britain to boot. According to the official documentation of the Russo-Japanese War, the British were neutral and so was the canal and as such, the 2nd Pacific Fleet had to go around the Cape of Good Hope. There was an incident where the Baltic fleet fired on defenceless Hull fisherman. This incident created a diplomatic crisis with England. The Baltic fleet sailed to Tangier, but had to use the Good Hope route. 1. The incident is known as Dogger Bank incident
2. The Suez canal did not belong to Great Britain 100%. Up until 1956 (when it was nationalized by Nasser) it was regulated, maintained and ruled by both Great Britain and France and according to the international navigation rules.
3. A detachment of the Russian 2nd Pacific Squadron separated itself in Tangier, sailed through the Mediterranean and passed from the Suez Canal undisturbed. The same happened with the 3rd Pacific Squadron that was following the 2nd with some weeks delay. There was no provision or rule or neutrality law denying passage to the Russian ships.
The main part of the Russian fleet went round the Good Hope Cape because the Russians feared that the Japanese could send either to Suez Canal or to the tight and narrow Red Sea a squadron of torpedo boats and attack them. Not because they were not allowed to pass through the Suez canal, regardless the tension existed between Great Britain and Russia due to the Dogger Bank incident. After all they were allies with France who also was co-ruling the Suez canal with Great Britain.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Apr 28, 2020 9:49:05 GMT -6
The Second Pacific Squadron sailed to Brest and waited for the North Sea incident to be resolved. They then sailed for Tangiers. At this point they split into two groups, Rozhestivenski's main forced sailed around Africa and the Suez Canal. Admiral Fel'Kerzam's detachment of the Battleships Sisoy Velikiy and Navarin, cruisers Svetlana, Zhemchung and Almaz, all of the seven destroyers and the transports Kitay and Knyaz'Gorchakov sailed for Suda Bay in Crete. They met transports from the Black Sea. On the 24th of November the entire squadron arrived at Port Said and passed through the Suez Canal, through the morning of the 25th of November and the afternoon of the 26th. They arrived at Djibouti on the 3rd of December.
Source Russo-Japanese War 1905 Vol 2. Author is Piotr Olender
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Post by DrunkSailor on Apr 28, 2020 10:23:31 GMT -6
Source Russo-Japanese War 19095 Vol 2. Author is Piotr Olender It is admirable when an author can see so far in the future... it surpasses (almost) Isaac Asimov and his Foundation trilogy  |
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Post by oldpop2000 on Apr 28, 2020 10:56:02 GMT -6
Source Russo-Japanese War 19095 Vol 2. Author is Piotr Olender It is admirable when an author can see so far in the future... it surpasses (almost) Isaac Asimov and his Foundation trilogy Sorry busy morning for a man who has been retired for eighteen years.  |
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