Carrier Rebuilds (1.19)

[gildeddawn]

Are carriers supposed to be massively over their tonnage when you go to rebuild them?

Edit: I just noticed it says the Voltaire is 200 tons and speed is set to zero. Upon investigation, it seems to do that if you open a design for rebuild, then click on the main game screen to make the editor disappear, but do not actually close the editor, and then open another design for rebuild. It doesn't seem to functionally change anything as far as I can tell, although I did not try to actually save and use a rebuild design where that had happened. The Voltaire-class tonnage 24500, and the speed is 31 knots.

Edit 2: Deck edge lifts were not checked in the original design. If you check it, the designer will keep it checked if you switch designs, even if you load a non-carrier or an older carrier design that didn't have it checked, although I haven't tried to save a non-carrier design with it checked. I can confirm that it does not affect the carrier rebuild bug that was the original point of the post. It was doing that before I invented deck edge lifts.

[seawolf]

Apr 29, 2020 0:12:01 GMT -6 gildeddawn said:

Are carriers supposed to be massively over their tonnage when you go to rebuild them?

Edit: I just noticed it says the Voltaire is 200 tons and speed is set to zero. Upon investigation, it seems to do that if you open a design for rebuild, then click on the main game screen to make the editor disappear, but do not actually close the editor, and then open another design for rebuild. It doesn't seem to functionally change anything as far as I can tell, although I did not try to actually save and use a rebuild design where that had happened. The Voltaire-class tonnage 24500, and the speed is 31 knots.

Edit 2: Deck edge lifts were not checked in the original design. If you check it, the designer will keep it checked if you switch designs, even if you load a non-carrier or an older carrier design that didn't have it checked, although I haven't tried to save a non-carrier design with it checked. I can confirm that it does not affect the carrier rebuild bug that was the original point of the post. It was doing that before I invented deck edge lifts.

If this is a bug, I hope they leave it in.  It appears to match up pretty closely to historical reduction in aircraft complement due to increasing aircraft size

[gildeddawn]

I had thought that myself. Carrier air wings certainly did decrease in size over time as aircraft got bigger and heavier, and this could be a way to represent that in game. But, at the same time it is also pretty immersion breaking when you have to reduce a carrier's air wing by 5 or 6 aircraft in order to rebuild it, and you can then open the rebuild design as a new design and see that it's over 1000 tons under its tonnage.

[seawolf]

Apr 29, 2020 1:05:07 GMT -6 gildeddawn said:

I had thought that myself. Carrier air wings certainly did decrease in size over time as aircraft got bigger and heavier, and this could be a way to represent that in game. But, at the same time it is also pretty immersion breaking when you have to reduce a carrier's air wing by 5 or 6 aircraft in order to rebuild it, and you can then open the rebuild design as a new design and see that it's over 1000 tons under its tonnage.

Hmm so definitely a bug.  I’ve also found it doesn’t apply to CVLs

[rimbecano]

Apr 29, 2020 1:05:07 GMT -6 gildeddawn said:

But, at the same time it is also pretty immersion breaking when you have to reduce a carrier's air wing by 5 or 6 aircraft in order to rebuild it, and you can then open the rebuild design as a new design and see that it's over 1000 tons under its tonnage.

Almost any rebuild design for any type will be significantly under its tonnage when opened as a new design, because engine tech will have improved, so the same speed will require less machinery.

[gildeddawn]

Apr 29, 2020 11:43:51 GMT -6 rimbecano said:

Apr 29, 2020 1:05:07 GMT -6 gildeddawn said:

But, at the same time it is also pretty immersion breaking when you have to reduce a carrier's air wing by 5 or 6 aircraft in order to rebuild it, and you can then open the rebuild design as a new design and see that it's over 1000 tons under its tonnage.

Almost any rebuild design for any type will be significantly under its tonnage when opened as a new design, because engine tech will have improved, so the same speed will require less machinery.

I know, but what I was thinking of is the carrier class I built before the two posted. I had to reduce the airwing from 98 to 93 to get them under tonnage so I could equip deck mounted catapults and upgrade to electro optical director. The ships were about 8 years old when I did this. Now, if you open the original design and compare it to the rebuild design:

[gildeddawn]

And, if you open the design for rebuild now:

[gildeddawn]

Also worth noting that I rebuilt all of my existing carriers when I invented electro optical director and deck mounted catapults, and this did not happen with my two older carrier classes but only with the newest one:

The Latouche-Treville and Colbert class both got to keep their original air wing size (in fact I even got to add a couple on the Latouche-Treville's IIRC). Only the newest one experienced this. I was willing to dismiss it at the time because I had been using design files to create new templates at around the time I was building the Bougainvilles which involved modifying the design files directly in some cases. The Boungainville design was one of the ones that got used. I was pretty sure I had been careful to maintain the original designs in the Game1 folder, but I was still willing to believe that the design was supposed to be 29000 tons but somehow it got changed to 28000 in the original design file and saved and I didn't notice, as it had been almost exactly 1000 tons overweight. So, I accepted the 5 plane air wing reduction and moved on.

Later experience has discredited that theory.

[dia]

Apr 29, 2020 0:12:01 GMT -6 gildeddawn said:

Are carriers supposed to be massively over their tonnage when you go to rebuild them?

I've had this happen to me. I built a carrier based on the Shokaku template design with 90 a/c, 4 Torpedo Defense 4, more medium AAA, and up to date tech. The first ship launched in 1943. In 1951 I went to rebuild and had to remove 8 aircraft just to get it within weight. Not once did this happen to my older carriers, which had started service with biplanes.

[gildeddawn]

I wonder if it is somehow caused by torpedo defense 4. It just occurred to me that the Bougainville class were the first carriers I built that had TD 4. The earlier ones had TD 2, and were fine, but all of the ones with TD 4 had this issue.

IDK. It could be a coincidence.

[dia]

May 1, 2020 18:22:16 GMT -6 gildeddawn said:

I wonder if it is somehow caused by torpedo defense 4. It just occurred to me that the Bougainville class were the first carriers I built that had TD 4. The earlier ones had TD 2, and were fine, but all of the ones with TD 4 had this issue.

IDK. It could be a coincidence.

Not so sure. All my carriers were built with TD 4. My first, the Akagi, never had any issues. The second class, the Soryu's I mentioned in the post above yours had the most issues. My later classes didn't, but as it turns out when I checked my old game just now, my later classes of carriers are now listed as overweight when trying to rebuild though not as severe as the Soryu's. Though this could be a result of updating from 1.18 to 1.20. However the issue I had with the overweight Soryu's had nothing to do with a version update.