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Post by potrero on May 5, 2020 20:56:51 GMT -6
Instead of just scrapping every ship, what if selecting "dispose" brings up a menu or window that offers the option to sell the ship for scrap, convert it to a barracks/warehouse/training auxiliary, or sell it to a 3rd-world ally. The menu could show the amount you could sell it for via the first or third option, or reduce your monthly costs by the second option. The value for each could be randomized so that any of the three could potentially be the most economical.
If a minor ally is looking for a ship for their own fleet, then the international sale price will be higher. A lower sale price means nobody is looking for the ship you're offering. Destroyers, light cruisers, and minesweepers, being cheaper, would be more likely to be in demand. Battleships and battlecruisers would be less likely to be in demand, but would bring a higher price if they are. Selling capital ships or large numbers of escorts could potentially incur a tension penalty as well.
For the auxiliary option, converting a warship--especially a bigger ship--wouldn't gain you any money but would instead reduce your monthly operating costs. This would simulate the ship being disarmed and permanently tied up as a floating(ish) barracks, school, or warehouse so that you don't have to build/maintain property ashore. This is not necessarily worthwhile during boom times, but could make a difference in lean budget years.
Scrapping a ship is always an option, but the scrap value of a ship will vary. With the values being randomized, you could potentially get a windfall, but there would be no guarantee that any of the values would be high and it's always possible that you could take it in the shorts no matter which option you choose. This could give players an extra dimension of considerations when deciding whether they should keep an old "better than nothing" ship in reserve--or try to modernize it--as opposed to getting rid of it one way or another.
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berte
Full Member
BANNED
Posts: 109
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Post by berte on May 5, 2020 22:31:00 GMT -6
Having another nation prompt you with a buy offer at twice the scrap value would be interesting event... Would you go for that? Maybe a nation that has been clobbered in a recent fight wouldn't mind getting their hands on a second rate ship they'd have to refit.
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Post by rob06waves2018 on May 6, 2020 4:39:42 GMT -6
Whilst I do like this idea, what real benefit would adding this code have? I don't scrap ships for the scrap value, I scrap them because they're now useless to me and the maintenance isn't worth it. The potential for double the scrap value is not really going to make a difference so randomising that would have limted effect. Barracks and storeships are abstracted so that's not really an issue. Selling to a weaker power is interesting, but again, that's a one-off fiscal benefit that will get eaten up in one month's construction deficit. The museum ship event is only worth it because it is a) already coded as an event and b) does actually give a prestige bonus. The law of diminishing returns dictates that adding such a dispose mechanic may not be a worthwhile use of the devs' time.
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Post by aeson on May 6, 2020 9:35:33 GMT -6
For the auxiliary option, converting a warship--especially a bigger ship--wouldn't gain you any money but would instead reduce your monthly operating costs. This would simulate the ship being disarmed and permanently tied up as a floating(ish) barracks, school, or warehouse so that you don't have to build/maintain property ashore. This is not necessarily worthwhile during boom times, but could make a difference in lean budget years. Upkeep cost reduction is a very dangerous thing to put into a game if it's not tightly regulated.
Also, I would question how much using an old warship as a supply ship would really save you in fleet operating costs - it might be cheaper in the short term than building a new collier or ammunition ship or whatever from the keel up, but warships aren't exactly designed for cargo capacity and the ship's cruising efficiency may also be an issue, especially if you don't replace the power plant as part of the conversion. Additionally, a fleet auxiliary operated by the Navy is still a ship that the Navy has to pay upkeep on and provide a crew for whereas a civilian-owned and -operated cargo ship only has to be paid for when the Navy needs its services, so depending on how much stuff is needed, where stuff is needed, and what the going rates for shipping are it could be cheaper for the Navy to charter civilian freighters to cover part or all of its peacetime logistical needs than it is to use Navy freighters for the same purpose - especially since fleet auxiliaries tend to be faster and thus have higher operating costs than typical civilian freighters.
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Post by potrero on May 6, 2020 9:57:37 GMT -6
For the auxiliary option, converting a warship--especially a bigger ship--wouldn't gain you any money but would instead reduce your monthly operating costs. This would simulate the ship being disarmed and permanently tied up as a floating(ish) barracks, school, or warehouse so that you don't have to build/maintain property ashore. This is not necessarily worthwhile during boom times, but could make a difference in lean budget years. Upkeep cost reduction is a very dangerous thing to put into a game if it's not tightly regulated.
Also, I would question how much using an old warship as a supply ship would really save you in fleet operating costs - it might be cheaper in the short term than building a new collier or ammunition ship or whatever from the keel up, but warships aren't exactly designed for cargo capacity and the ship's cruising efficiency may also be an issue, especially if you don't replace the power plant as part of the conversion. Additionally, a fleet auxiliary operated by the Navy is still a ship that the Navy has to pay upkeep on and provide a crew for whereas a civilian-owned and -operated cargo ship only has to be paid for when the Navy needs its services, so depending on how much stuff is needed, where stuff is needed, and what the going rates for shipping are it could be cheaper for the Navy to charter civilian freighters to cover part or all of its peacetime logistical needs than it is to use Navy freighters for the same purpose - especially since fleet auxiliaries tend to be faster and thus have higher operating costs than typical civilian freighters.
Sorry, I should have said “hulk” instead of “ship.” The idea being that the ship is stripped of guns and propulsion and left tied to an otherwise-unused dock, its available volume used for whatever the navy needs at the moment, be it warehouse/depot, barracks, school hulk, etc. Think HMS Caroline or HMS Bristol for recent examples. Or go further back and look at USS Oregon. Once hulked, these ships wouldn’t go into the fleet supply train. They would never move again at all under their own power. They would just be a cheaper alternative to building a facility ashore, hence the reduction in operating costs and potentially only being a worthwhile option under a tight budget. In any of the three cases, the disposed ship would be gone from the game. Even the sale option would be to an abstracted 3rd-world ally. Just thought it might be cool to have a couple more options besides just “scrap” and the rare museum or SINKEX. |
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Post by brygun on May 6, 2020 18:00:41 GMT -6
I do like the idea of giving a menu for scrapping. This would give us a place for multiple options including reworking the meusuem ship. Options based on the OP, discussions and my own input:
= Scrap directly
Existing fund transfer.
= Offer on market
== chance: it goes to a lower tier ally. You get more more money with a risk of tecnhology leak.
== chance it gets taken by scrapper for medium money.
== chance you waste time marketing and get less money than if you had just scrapped directly
= Petition for Museum status
== Chance, based on its battle stars, the public supports the program. You can more prestige. (perhaps based on its battle stars)
== Chance the ship is taken into a navy school, recruitment and awareness rises, gain 1 prestige?
== Declined. Its sold for scrap. Less money than scrapping directly due to marketing costs.
= Target vessel
== Chance one or more research techs get a boost
== Chance one ship, who did the shooting, gets a boost in its skill rating
= Depot Hulk
== Small improvement in your budget
Represents having a place to store goods without paying land rental or that is placed at a colony
= Convert to battery
= Option to convert its main guns, if at least 4, to outfit a coastal battery. This reduces the cost of the battery to 1/2?.
== You would need to choose the which which colony (flag) you put it at
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Post by noshurviverse on May 6, 2020 18:57:53 GMT -6
I have no idea if this represents how things may have actually gone, but what about the potential of a scrapped ship reducing the monthly build cost of ships currently under construction? The most obvious example would be taking main guns from your predreads to outfit your first-gen dreadnoughts, assuming they use the same caliber. Or, and this is the one I'm not sure about, offering a hulk to the company providing the steel for construction, reducing costs as they would "only" have to melt it down and reforge it, as opposed to extracting and refining the ore and whatnot. Of course, ship tonnage and the difference in tech would almost certainly impact how much this helps, perhaps with very old hulls being worthless as the metalworking is so outdated.
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Post by dia on May 6, 2020 22:24:23 GMT -6
I do like the idea of giving a menu for scrapping. This would give us a place for multiple options including reworking the meusuem ship. Options based on the OP, discussions and my own input: = Scrap directly Existing fund transfer. = Offer on market == chance: it goes to a lower tier ally. You get more more money with a risk of tecnhology leak. == chance it gets taken by scrapper for medium money. == chance you waste time marketing and get less money than if you had just scrapped directly = Petition for Museum status == Chance, based on its battle stars, the public supports the program. You can more prestige. (perhaps based on its battle stars) == Chance the ship is taken into a navy school, recruitment and awareness rises, gain 1 prestige? == Declined. Its sold for scrap. Less money than scrapping directly due to marketing costs. = Target vessel == Chance one or more research techs get a boost == Chance one ship, who did the shooting, gets a boost in its skill rating = Depot Hulk == Small improvement in your budget Represents having a place to store goods without paying land rental or that is placed at a colony = Convert to battery = Option to convert its main guns, if at least 4, to outfit a coastal battery. This reduces the cost of the battery to 1/2?. == You would need to choose the which which colony (flag) you put it at Really liking this idea, especially having things by chance. I wish museum ship chance wasn't so random and I rarely if ever get asked to use scrapped ships as target practice. |
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