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Post by nobody on May 22, 2020 9:23:51 GMT -6
Why are divisions in RtW2 so bad at doing their job? (especially compared to RtW1) For example: The SCOUT-cruiser is hiding in line just behind the main force - instead of doing any scouting. The CORE (2nd BB division) is trailing in a parallel line 5km to the side - instead of lining up behind the lead formating. The SCREEN DDs are trailing behind the ships they are supposed to screen by 7km or so - instead of being roughly 10k further to the front. The SUPPORT DDs trailing behind those by another 3 to 7km - instead of sailing parallel to the line. And no didn't just change the roles. They have been in their roles since the first minute and have been sailing in a strait line for hours. Basically every single ship is at least 5km out of position! And they make no attempts to correct this.
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Post by aeson on May 22, 2020 9:53:26 GMT -6
Take a look at how fast the ships can go - you've got a "Sea State Limits Ship Speed" warning, and the wind is listed as "Strong Gale." It's entirely possible that the battleships are faster than anything else you have in that engagement under those conditions; the destroyers may not even be able to make nominal cruising speed if conditions are bad enough.
For example:
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Post by nobody on May 22, 2020 10:49:11 GMT -6
Take a look at how fast the ships can go - you've got a "Sea State Limits Ship Speed" warning, and the wind is listed as "Strong Gale." It's entirely possible that the battleships are faster than anything else you have in that engagement under those conditions; the destroyers may not even be able to make nominal cruising speed if conditions are bad enough. You're not wrong in this case. Big ships are limited to 16kn and the destroyers to 15kn. However, that does not change my general criticism. For example I have never seen a core division doing its job (lining up close behind the lead as if part of that division). Best case I could hope for was that they stay in visible range. Once an enemy appears they seem to do all in their might to stay out of the fight entirely.
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Post by dorn on May 22, 2020 12:44:19 GMT -6
How often do you use maximum speed?
If you cruise usually at maximum speed, ships have problem to maintain their position as there is no margin so any even minimal change out of position could not be corrected.
I suggest not using maximum speed especially with larger force, having 1 to 2 knots in reserve to be able maintain formation.
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Post by nobody on May 22, 2020 13:00:09 GMT -6
How often do you use maximum speed? Never, basically. Almost always "cruise" and "20kn" in battle. With exception of course, e.g. hunting down a raider.
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Post by nobody on May 30, 2020 6:03:25 GMT -6
How about this one. Weather is fine, view range is fine. Speed is 25 of 27 knots. Why does core group not follow the main? I came from the east then turned north (in a few steps), but the Core-division did not follow. First it kept going strait instead of turning north, and they turned south leaving the main group to be chewed up instead of helping in any way. I switched roles a dozen or so turns before, because on "support" they stayed in a parallel line behind (which I believe is intended), but that kept them precisely out of range - which not acceptable. Their firepower is very much needed. Something else I don't understand - why is the lead division in destroyer-battles - like this one - always so much smaller than the 2nd division?
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Post by Fredrik W on May 30, 2020 13:36:02 GMT -6
Destroyer divisions are intended to be more flexible than heavier ships under core orders. But maybe that is not what players expect.
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Post by nobody on May 30, 2020 13:50:40 GMT -6
Destroyer divisions are intended to be more flexible than heavier ships under core orders. But maybe that is not what players expect. Not when they're on "Core" or the only ships present, no. If they are escorting a bigger, slower ship however, yes. Much appreciated. It does not really matter in 1903, but later in the game (different savegame) I lost an entire fleet of destroyers (two large divisions), because they didn't stay together and basically gave the enemy a free "divide and conquer" victory. Didn't help they got their entire fleet (19 out of 21 DD or so they possessed) while I got only 12 of 44 in that sea-zone.
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magnin
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by magnin on Jun 16, 2020 10:38:53 GMT -6
I must concur with "nobody".
I just played a scenario where I trusted my second destroyer division to the AI. I wanted it to follow my lead destroyer division. So I gave it "core" orders.
But it behaved strangely ! It turned away instead of following in line.
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Post by rimbecano on Jun 16, 2020 11:04:19 GMT -6
One thing that I have noticed on multiple occasions is that core orders are not reliably followed if the lead division is faster (in maximum speed terms). This isn't just a matter of the following division trying to keep station and failing: it will often head off on a very different heading. I almost want to say that it is not a random heading but usually near-reciprocal, but I haven't kept records so I'm not sure that's the case. This may be what magnin is seeing.
An educated guess: If I'm right about the course usually being the near the reciprocal of the lead division's base course, then it's probably a sign-error bug: the following division calculates a heading to sail on to reach its station, and the speed of each division is taken into account. When the following division is slower than the lead, the difference between the two speeds has an unexpected minus sign that propagates through the calculations and ends up with a course that is around 180 degrees off.
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Post by wlbjork on Jun 16, 2020 12:40:17 GMT -6
I'm just as concerned about the Japanese "Sneak Attack" logic.
I had a nice, open target. Lead destroyers detected a couple of CAs slightly W of the target. So all 3 divisions swung E to attack a lone TR. Annoyingly, Russia had prepositioned all 20 of her Bs in zone, meaning that my DDs alone could have caused major damage to her fleet.
Instead I sunk 2 TRs and a KE before getting the heck outta dodge
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