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Post by deadmetal on Jun 4, 2020 6:07:41 GMT -6
"9 in 18578 yds Turret A hit T Turret disabled". This hit was to quadruple 18 inch turret face protected by 21 inch armor. Before someone jumps in to make excuses to how it might have happened - no need. I know that it might have actually happened, but the probability of it happening is not high, and I'm getting these turrets disabled almost constantly in battle, even by medium caliber shells.
I've also had them disabled after getting hits at TT, from similar caliber. I'm using 7.5 inch TT. While it perhaps would be possible for a medium shell to disable a heavy turret by scoring a lucky hit between the armor edge and the barrel - to a gun well essentially, I don't see how it could get disabled by getting hit at the top, given that its armor is of sufficient thickness.
Sure, with heavy shell impacts, and not at oblique angles, crew might suffer minor and temporary effects of acoustic disturbance, but certainly, it wouldn't mean that the turret would be out of action for half an hour or so.
This game is too heavy on penalties and they lack dynamics (dependency on circumstances).
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Post by polygon on Jun 4, 2020 12:11:44 GMT -6
Unfortunately quad turrets aren't simulated as "two twin turrets in close formation" like the French used, and if one gun is disabled the entire turret is disabled. Maybe partial disablement should be a thing?
And I agree that your heavily built turret probably shouldn't be knocked out by anything but the most golden BB of 9" shells. The turret you described weighs more than some light cruisers.
On the other hand, you seem to get weird flukes constantly.
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Post by deadmetal on Jun 5, 2020 0:16:44 GMT -6
On the other hand, you seem to get weird flukes constantly. Not sure what it's supposed to mean. The game works the same for everyone.
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Post by rimbecano on Jun 5, 2020 9:56:29 GMT -6
At Jutland, there were something like 14 or 15 instances on capital ships where a non-penetrating hit disabled a turret temporarily or permanently, not counting instances where a single gun was put out of action. Some or these involved armor fragments being driven in, possibly with some shell splinters penetrating (but with the shell as a whole being rejected), and might have been stopped by heavier armor, but not all. Various types of damage seen were debris in turret roller tracks, barbettes being bent by shells to the point where the rotation of the turret was jammed, fumes driving the crew from the turret, power cables being cut, director cables being cut, diesel generators being disabled by shock, training and elevation gear being damaged, shells ready for loading in the turret being set off by shock, etc.
There also seems to have been an instance of a shell ricocheting and bouncing through the gap between the barbette and the rotating structure into the turret without actually penetrating any armor at all.
At the following link, the odd chapters from 5 on present a fairly detailed account of the battle damage taken by large ships at Jutland, as well as various breakdowns suffered.
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Post by rs2excelsior on Jun 9, 2020 7:04:15 GMT -6
At the following link, the odd chapters from 5 on present a fairly detailed account of the battle damage taken by large ships at Jutland, as well as various breakdowns suffered. Did the link get removed, or not added in the first place? I’d be very interested in reading up on that, but I can’t see any link. I suppose it might not be showing up on mobile for some reason.
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Post by rimbecano on Jun 9, 2020 9:02:26 GMT -6
At the following link, the odd chapters from 5 on present a fairly detailed account of the battle damage taken by large ships at Jutland, as well as various breakdowns suffered. Did the link get removed, or not added in the first place? I’d be very interested in reading up on that, but I can’t see any link. I suppose it might not be showing up on mobile for some reason. I didn't remove it, so I probably neglected to actually add it in the first place. I suppose it might have been eaten by the forum software or removed by the admins, but in the latter case I'd expect them to have said something here about it. Here it is: web.archive.org/web/20160829024120/http://webpages.charter.net/abacus/news/jutland/
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Post by rs2excelsior on Jun 9, 2020 13:21:44 GMT -6
Thanks, I appreciate it! I am very interested in getting a look at what kind of damage the ships sustained, should help fill in the details of what’s happening in the battles in my own games.
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Post by captaintrek on Aug 19, 2020 9:37:12 GMT -6
Turrets constantly getting disabled, even if they're heavily armoured, is a fact of life in this game. Unlike dead's supra-rare mega-flooding from 5-inch shell hit problem (which I have experienced one time across four campaigns), it happens so frequently that it really has to be thought of as a feature, not a bug. In fact it's so bad that I designed this... which actually proved surprisingly effective as it engaged in single combat with an enemy capital ship (this was on small fleet size) several times and utterly curb-stomped the opposition each time... Later I realized I could do cross-deck fire wing turrets instead of the 7th centreline turret to eliminate the RoF penalty. Attachments:
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Post by williammiller on Aug 19, 2020 10:16:52 GMT -6
I've posted an internal note to look at the possibility of adding a 'gun lost from Turret X' damage result for Quad mounts.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 12:50:28 GMT -6
I actually had a 6" shell disable both A&B turrets on a 90,000 ton battlecruiser. It failed to pierce the turrets, which house twin 20 inch guns. Each turret weighs over 5000 tons. Turret armored roof thickness 8 inches. Turret face thickness 20 inches.
Personally I find this is rather silly. And immersion breaking.
I look forward to being corrected.
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Post by williammiller on Jun 13, 2021 19:59:45 GMT -6
I actually had a 6" shell disable both A&B turrets on a 90,000 ton battlecruiser. It failed to pierce the turrets, which house twin 20 inch guns. Each turret weighs over 5000 tons. Turret armored roof thickness 8 inches. Turret face thickness 20 inches. Personally I find this is rather silly. And immersion breaking. I look forward to being corrected. I think that extreme of an example qualifies as a bug; I will see what might be going on with this. Thanks.
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