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Post by pashahlis on Jun 10, 2020 16:54:31 GMT -6
1. What are the notable differences between flying boats and medium bombers? They seem to fulfil the same role: They are both long ranged, land based torpedo and bomber aircraft. 2. Is there any point in having dive bombers, when torpedo bombers are just so much better at sinking ships? Why not just equip a carrier with only fighters and torpedo bombers?
3. I read that IRL the reason most navies used a mixture of dive and torpedo bombers was that when they attacked simultaneously the AA and fighter defences of the ship would be overloaded as they had to shoot at both low flying targets as well as high flying ones. Is this modelled in game, e.g. AA becoming less effective if both torpedo and dive bombers attack? If not, then we are back to my 2nd question: Why use both types of aircraft, if torpedo bombers are obviously superior?
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berte
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Post by berte on Jun 10, 2020 17:30:29 GMT -6
I dont think medium bombers can attack subs like flying boats can.
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berte
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Post by berte on Jun 10, 2020 18:55:51 GMT -6
***Deleted post by oldpop2000 *** They can do this in the game? Then why ever use FB's when MB's come along? EDIT: I greatly dislike boards that also remove quotes by forum members in a thread who deleted their original comments. I think those quotes should remain. Otherwise you end up with incomplete responses and commentary that is nonsensical. So I kinda redid oldpop2000 quote above so my response doesn’t look like I’ve lost my marbles. Turns out that flying boats may attack subs and medium bombers do not.
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Post by Fredrik W on Jun 10, 2020 22:40:58 GMT -6
Only PB can attack subs in the game. The labeling of PB as flying boats in RTW2 is actually something of a misnomer. All long range naval patrol aircraft are included in the category. Initially, this was in practice only flying boats, but later land aircraft like for example the Liberator, which was called the PB4Y3 Privateer in its naval patrol configuration, became common in the role.
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Post by tordenskjold on Jun 11, 2020 8:05:55 GMT -6
On 2): From my recent games, I also conclude that DBs are particularly effective in bombing land targets, whereas TBs can perform only rather ineffective and much less accurate level bombing. So, if you're keen on silencing enemy airfields and batteries during those occasional coastal raids, you should emphasize DBs in the composition of your carrier air groups. I'd also like to stress the point that torpedos become less effective in late game due to larger ships, better TPS and damage control. So there's no real point in giving up DBs as a whole.
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Post by skyhawk on Jun 11, 2020 10:53:50 GMT -6
I've played two games where I outright ignore TB development and building. Until DB tech is researched my CVs are fleet CAP defense only though I will usually attempt to focus on building fighters that can at least carry a small bomb load for ground attack. I end up leaving all torpedo carrying to my MB and FB designs. Focusing primary strike capabilities on dive bombers makes for interesting results. I find I lose fewer DB to AA though I cant say the same for CAP. Try it some time. I still get plenty of ship kills and it allows me to focus development time on fewer aircraft types.
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Post by stevethecat on Jun 11, 2020 11:09:31 GMT -6
One of the most effective ASW aircraft for both the British and US Navy was the specially equipped B-24 Liberator bomber.
The British also had a lot of joy with the Swordfish, that old plane after its days of crippling the Bismarck was fitted with anti-sub radar and did night patrols hunting periscopes and snorkels.
But then again just about aicraft in Britain during WW2 was fitted with radar and used for ASW at some point!
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Post by skyhawk on Jun 11, 2020 11:10:15 GMT -6
I've played two games where I outright ignore TB development and building. Until DB tech is researched my CVs are fleet CAP defense only though I will usually attempt to focus on building fighters that can at least carry a small bomb load for ground attack. I end up leaving all torpedo carrying to my MB and FB designs. Focusing primary strike capabilities on dive bombers makes for interesting results. I find I lose fewer DB to AA though I cant say the same for CAP. Try it some time. I still get plenty of ship kills and it allows me to focus development time on fewer aircraft types. Historically, fighters have a difficult time following dive bombers, once they start their dives. They also have trouble attacking the formations because of the rear guns, at least the Japanese did. My dad told me that when the SBD's were in formation, the Japanese fighters generally stayed away. They would only attack after the dives were completed and the DB's headed to the rendezvous point. I was aware of that historically. Wasnt sure it applied in game though. Glad to see that it seems to.
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Post by pashahlis on Jun 11, 2020 15:33:34 GMT -6
No offence oldpop2000 but you seem to only speak historically here. Others seem to misunderstand your historical anecdotes as definite in game facts. I am purely asking about in game facts here. Now thanks to a developer we got confirmation now that only flying boats can attack submarines. Regarding #2 there does not seem to be a definite answer yet and regarding #3 there was no answer yet. @fredrik W could you say whether attacking with both torpedo and dive bombers at the same time reduces the AA efficiency, contrary to only attacking with dive or torpedo bombers, as was historically? In general what, if anything, affects AA efficiency? Last but not least could you say whether any stats of flying boats affect its ability to hunt subs? E.g. higher range and higher bomb load means higher chance of sinking a sub or is it irrelevant and thus if one only looks for building flying boats for sub hunting, one should build them as cheaply as possible?
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jun 11, 2020 15:53:01 GMT -6
No offence oldpop2000 but you seem to only speak historically here. Others seem to misunderstand your historical anecdotes as definite in game facts. I am purely asking about in game facts here. Now thanks to a developer we got confirmation now that only flying boats can attack submarines. Regarding #2 there does not seem to be a definite answer yet and regarding #3 there was no answer yet. @fredrik W could you say whether attacking with both torpedo and dive bombers at the same time reduces the AA efficiency, contrary to only attacking with dive or torpedo bombers, as was historically? In general what, if anything, affects AA efficiency? Last but not least could you say whether any stats of flying boats affect its ability to hunt subs? E.g. higher range and higher bomb load means higher chance of sinking a sub or is it irrelevant and thus if one only looks for building flying boats for sub hunting, one should build them as cheaply as possible? I will stay out of the thread. All posts deleted. Bye
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jun 11, 2020 16:47:48 GMT -6
***Deleted post by oldpop2000 *** They can do this in the game? Then why ever use FB's when MB's come along? EDIT: I greatly dislike boards that also remove quotes by forum members in a thread who deleted their original comments. I think those quotes should remain. Otherwise you end up with incomplete responses and commentary that is nonsensical. So I kinda redid oldpop2000 quote above so my response doesn’t look like I’ve lost my marbles. Turns out that flying boats may attack subs and medium bombers do not. It wasn't the forum that did it, it was I. Most of the forum members are interested in the game and how it works.. I will be more careful and not try to bore everyone with my historical comments. It's a bad habit. I will try to restrain myself. Sorry for causing you some problems.
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Post by skoggatt on Jun 11, 2020 21:01:11 GMT -6
In game flying boats are the only aircraft that contribute to ASW score, while medium bombers can carry torpedoes and flying boats cannot. Medium bombers are also the only aircraft that can carry guided bombs once those become available. I suppose if the enemy has almost no subs than it would make sense to use just medium bombers as they can scout just as well and attack ships much better. Otherwise the ASW score from flying boats generally far out strips that of ships on TP by the 30s so they are really nice for eliminating all those annoying subs.
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Post by pashahlis on Jun 11, 2020 22:00:29 GMT -6
Well seems that the flying boat vs- medium bomber question is sufficiently answered now. But the dive vs. torpedo bomber question is still kinda open as well as the question if AA efficiency is modified based on stuff like a simultaneous attack by dive and torpedo bombers or stuff like that. oldpop2000 There is nothing wrong with your historical anecdotes and in fact I like them. But you need to make it clear that you are just talking about historical anecdotes, not in game features. When you gave your historical anecdote about medium bombers also being able to function as sub hunters, berte took that as you meaning that this is an in game functionality and after he asked if that is true, you again gave him an historical anecdote that this happened historically, which he took as meaning it works like that in game too.
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Post by Fredrik W on Jun 12, 2020 2:07:18 GMT -6
No offence oldpop2000 but you seem to only speak historically here. Others seem to misunderstand your historical anecdotes as definite in game facts. I am purely asking about in game facts here. Now thanks to a developer we got confirmation now that only flying boats can attack submarines. Regarding #2 there does not seem to be a definite answer yet and regarding #3 there was no answer yet. @fredrik W could you say whether attacking with both torpedo and dive bombers at the same time reduces the AA efficiency, contrary to only attacking with dive or torpedo bombers, as was historically? In general what, if anything, affects AA efficiency? Last but not least could you say whether any stats of flying boats affect its ability to hunt subs? E.g. higher range and higher bomb load means higher chance of sinking a sub or is it irrelevant and thus if one only looks for building flying boats for sub hunting, one should build them as cheaply as possible? AA efficiency is affected by the number of air formations attacking at the same time, not their type. Each air attack will cause AA disruption on the attacked ships. Bomb hits (especially HE bombs) and strafing will add to AA disruption. AA disruption will recover with some delay, so the net effect is that several air formations attacking near in time will decrease AA efficiency. The type of the aircraft is not taken into account. In short, coordinated strikes are better. The type of aircraft attacking is however taken into account in CAP interceptions, so CAP will be split an less effective if Torpedo bombers and other aircraft are attacking simultaneously or near simultaneously. PB anti sub capability is affected by range, bomb load and reliability, but ASW tech will have a larger effect.
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Post by wlbjork on Jun 12, 2020 7:32:35 GMT -6
oldpop2000 There is nothing wrong with your historical anecdotes and in fact I like them. But you need to make it clear that you are just talking about historical anecdotes, not in game features. When you gave your historical anecdote about medium bombers also being able to function as sub hunters, berte took that as you meaning that this is an in game functionality and after he asked if that is true, you again gave him an historical anecdote that this happened historically, which he took as meaning it works like that in game too. I quite agree. Can I suggest using the quote function, attributing to Historical Notes or Historical Anecdote as required? This will allow the passing on of invaluable knowledge.
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