Post by christian on Sept 22, 2020 7:53:28 GMT -6
main problem i have with the withholding of information is not that all information should be withheld but that the very gameplay important bits like penetration from bombs and shells IS withheld which makes no sense from both a historical and gameplay perspective as it can be both frustrating and is unrealistic
we dont need to know oxygen torpedo explosion rate chance of breaching torpedo bulkhead or chance of overpens and so on
having information on actual things like penetration torpedo performance and so on would reduce frustration when trying to design ships to protect against bombs (so you dont have to go look up online or test bomb penetration) or decide whether to allow oxygen torpedoes because you dont know if they will actually do anything (like deck parking)
stuff like diving shells are a perfect case of when to withhold information from the player because its effects are not something which needs to be told but rather something someone can experience and decide whether to use it even if their experience might not show the full picture and withholding said information also makes sense historically
but when i have no idea if oxygen torpedoes even work or increase torpedo performance (last i tested they dont increase it at all) it very quickly becomes a do not use button it is purely detrimental and serves no purpose other than destroyer explosions
same goes for penetration of HE SAP and bombs these things should all be known so you dont have to make a pure gamble of "will this airstrike do anything because i loaded SAP/HE/AP vs cruisers"
knowing HE/SAP pen might also influence you to be a bit more aggressive in ammo loadout because you know your heavy cruiser can penetrate their light cruisers with SAP so you load more SAP than AP which might leave you vulnerable to heavy cruiser attacks or keep air attacks back because you might not damage their battleship with your bombs
right now its PURELY guessing which becomes experienced based guessing once you have played enough
(historically that's the only reason the japanese made level bombing flights at midway because they couldn't dive bomb with the large converted projectile bombs and their standard 250 kg bombs could not penetrate the american battleships deck armor)
or make light cruisers with HE/SAP primarily for use against light ships leaving them open to other light cruisers
or your CAs going full AP because most of the enemy ships are BCs and CAs but it leaves them vulnerable to destroyers/light cruisers
a bit on metaships
metaships will always be a thing
you literally cannot stop it someone will always want to have the best and strongest design and a meta will always be a thing
things will be tested like bomb penetration SAP penetration HE penetration
armor scheme durability hit chance against deck armor and other parts of the ship
problem is several bugs and imbalanced things make metaships (and strong ones at that) a problem as they utilise these bugs to be stupidly gamebreaking strong
(18000 ton heavy cruisers whoose armor costs like 40% less than one at 15000 tons)
or how a cruiser at 15900 tons (i think thats the tonnage) has a speed increase cost reduction of more than 80% at 35 knots (think thats it) so a 15900 ton ship going 35 knots only needs 10k horsepower and becomes EXTREMELY CHEAP weight wise and incredibly strong because you have so much leftover weight for guns and armor
currently AON is bugged and does not work as real AON should
its not watertight a single bow hit which causes flooding can sink an AON ship this should not be possible
sloped deck ships have much much better weight to armor characteristics than AON ships as both deck AND belt armor go towards belt armor which means you can get increased protection against bombs while also protecting against shells and shell deck hit rate was found to be sub 3% over 600+ hits so deck armor vs shells is not very useful beyond 2,5 inches for splinter/he protection until you factor in bombs which means BBs need a minimum of 5 inches to resist fighter bombs
on top of this sloped deck ships can have extended deck and belt armor which provides complete protection from most SAP and HE shells massively reducing damage taken by sub 8 inch guns
this means AON straight up gives less protection for its weight and has less maximum potential for protection as ends of ship cant be protected while remaining completely AON
if you want more info on metaships the discord is probably the place to ask
(alot of work by some discord members has also been done to reveal the meta Jabajabajebejebe who has a lot of data on hit probability from tests and damage and Alekan who has made some truly strong meta ships)
we dont need to know oxygen torpedo explosion rate chance of breaching torpedo bulkhead or chance of overpens and so on
having information on actual things like penetration torpedo performance and so on would reduce frustration when trying to design ships to protect against bombs (so you dont have to go look up online or test bomb penetration) or decide whether to allow oxygen torpedoes because you dont know if they will actually do anything (like deck parking)
stuff like diving shells are a perfect case of when to withhold information from the player because its effects are not something which needs to be told but rather something someone can experience and decide whether to use it even if their experience might not show the full picture and withholding said information also makes sense historically
but when i have no idea if oxygen torpedoes even work or increase torpedo performance (last i tested they dont increase it at all) it very quickly becomes a do not use button it is purely detrimental and serves no purpose other than destroyer explosions
same goes for penetration of HE SAP and bombs these things should all be known so you dont have to make a pure gamble of "will this airstrike do anything because i loaded SAP/HE/AP vs cruisers"
knowing HE/SAP pen might also influence you to be a bit more aggressive in ammo loadout because you know your heavy cruiser can penetrate their light cruisers with SAP so you load more SAP than AP which might leave you vulnerable to heavy cruiser attacks or keep air attacks back because you might not damage their battleship with your bombs
right now its PURELY guessing which becomes experienced based guessing once you have played enough
(historically that's the only reason the japanese made level bombing flights at midway because they couldn't dive bomb with the large converted projectile bombs and their standard 250 kg bombs could not penetrate the american battleships deck armor)
or make light cruisers with HE/SAP primarily for use against light ships leaving them open to other light cruisers
or your CAs going full AP because most of the enemy ships are BCs and CAs but it leaves them vulnerable to destroyers/light cruisers
a bit on metaships
metaships will always be a thing
you literally cannot stop it someone will always want to have the best and strongest design and a meta will always be a thing
things will be tested like bomb penetration SAP penetration HE penetration
armor scheme durability hit chance against deck armor and other parts of the ship
problem is several bugs and imbalanced things make metaships (and strong ones at that) a problem as they utilise these bugs to be stupidly gamebreaking strong
(18000 ton heavy cruisers whoose armor costs like 40% less than one at 15000 tons)
or how a cruiser at 15900 tons (i think thats the tonnage) has a speed increase cost reduction of more than 80% at 35 knots (think thats it) so a 15900 ton ship going 35 knots only needs 10k horsepower and becomes EXTREMELY CHEAP weight wise and incredibly strong because you have so much leftover weight for guns and armor
currently AON is bugged and does not work as real AON should
its not watertight a single bow hit which causes flooding can sink an AON ship this should not be possible
sloped deck ships have much much better weight to armor characteristics than AON ships as both deck AND belt armor go towards belt armor which means you can get increased protection against bombs while also protecting against shells and shell deck hit rate was found to be sub 3% over 600+ hits so deck armor vs shells is not very useful beyond 2,5 inches for splinter/he protection until you factor in bombs which means BBs need a minimum of 5 inches to resist fighter bombs
on top of this sloped deck ships can have extended deck and belt armor which provides complete protection from most SAP and HE shells massively reducing damage taken by sub 8 inch guns
this means AON straight up gives less protection for its weight and has less maximum potential for protection as ends of ship cant be protected while remaining completely AON
if you want more info on metaships the discord is probably the place to ask
(alot of work by some discord members has also been done to reveal the meta Jabajabajebejebe who has a lot of data on hit probability from tests and damage and Alekan who has made some truly strong meta ships)