Expanded Invasion Ideas

[dia]

Some invasion ideas I've been thinking about

• Different types of invasion battles and objectives: Instead of fleet battles every time (and invasion fleet battles are very buggy tbh) there's an invasion, perhaps other types of battles or objectives. Especially for when the enemy can't muster forces for a fleet battle. For example, if the enemy can't muster a force or declines a fleet battle, the player is given a scenario where they have to destroy a land target or shore batteries prior to the invasion for it to continue. Or perhaps the transports had made it to the beachhead unmolested at a prior date and now the player must deploy to protect the beachhead from an enemy counter attack (think Leyte Gulf). The latter could also be used in reverse for the player during an AI invasion. I'd also like to see more battle in support of land combat scenarios that kind of make a little more sense. Like having transport heading towards the invaded possession during convoy missions and more land bombardment missions (with more than one target location) or coastal raids involving attack a beachhead. Furthermore, I think destroying shore batteries during an invasion should give bonuses to subsequent land combat. I've had invasions where the AI challenged me with one BB that took off running and I had nothing to do but send airstrikes at shore batteries. I'd like that effort to bear fruit.
  
• Special Equipment for CVL's to add bonuses to land combat in sea zones they're in: I've suggested this before so I'll just link it here. See the Carry more General purpose bombs and ASW equipment in the second quote
  
• Increased Invasion Range: I find invasion ranges in the later game to be too short for proper combat in the Pacific theater. I think invasion ranges should be increased, but I think it should be scaled to value. Low value islands in the Pacific should be able to be invaded at longer ranges than higher value possessions. I think this would make Pacific combat more enjoyable, though in my experience the time it takes to capture a 1 or 0 value island is still ridiculously long.
  
• Different Levels of Invasions: This is kind of the meat of my suggestions as it's the most game changing. But I believe it would make the game play so much more interesting.
  1. Regular Amphibious Invasions: Basically what we have now. Purely amphibious invasions limited to possessions with a value less than 10.
     
  2. Land/Amphibious Invasions: One thing I can't quite understand is why to invade Tunisia from Libya, I have to go by sea? It makes little sense. That's why I propose that if you launch an invasion against a possession that you have a land border with (either via possession or home area), it starts off as a land invasion. It will kick off relatively fast, regardless of your naval superiority. The caveat is that a purely land invasion has a lower chance of success and may take a lot longer, especially if you don't have naval superiority. To make up for this, after the first few months you will be given the option to initiate an amphibious invasion - assuming you have more strength than the enemy in the area. If you decline or can't get the invasion to generate due to lack of strength, the land combat will continue as a land invasion (ie, lower chance of success). If you accept and successfully invade by sea, the combat takes a significant turn in your favor. Imagine you are landing behind enemy lines and outflanking them. Keep in mind you will still be required to support land combat like a traditional invasion regardless if it's a pure land invasion or not. That's why naval superiority is still recommended. Also, an amphibious invasion would not even be generated if you don't have the required naval strength. I'm not calling for a new type of land combat. Land invasions would just be regular land combat with a lower chance of success than traditional invasions. A follow up amphibious invasion would turn it into land combat with a higher chance of success than traditional invasions. Here's a typical example of how it would work
     1. Select Invasion Target
        
     2. If there's a land border, the target is invaded immediately or after a very slight delay.
        
     3. Land combat commences at lower chance of success with bonuses to the defender - battles in support of land combat are generated
        
     4. Depending on Naval strength, the player is given an option to initiate an invasion battle (this could be immediately or months later if you finally manage to gain superiority) 
        
     5. If the invasion is successful, the player is given huge bonuses to land combat - battles in support of land combat may still be required
        
     6. If the player declines or the sea invasion is unsuccessful, land combat continues as is and the player may or may not be given another chance. 

     The question remains regarding cost. Once the land invasion kicks off, the player should be free to choose a new target. But that also means they won't have to continue paying for an invasion while they wait for an invasion battle (since it's technically already ongoing). The player will only have to pay for one or two, maybe three months before the land invasion kicks off. I think that's fair though. If you assume the amphibious invasion in this case is not a full invasion, but a supporting one, it justifies the overall lower price as most of the heavy work is being done by the army. Personally I find invasions already overpriced. The price itself is fair, but it's the fact you pay it then the next month the invasion is delayed and you end up paying the exact same price again.
     

  3. High-Value Invasions: This is exactly the same as above, but for possessions with a value greater than 10. Basically the same, except to invade would require not one, but two or possibly more invasion battles. Would be significantly more costly to set as a target, but only have to pay up to the first invasion.
     
  4. Invasion of Home Areas: Finally the big one. I've suggested this before too, so I'll just requote myself
     

     I also think there needs to be invasions (but not capturing) of home territory, either initiated by the navy or the army depending on location, closeness of the two nations, and logistic ability of the attacker. These would never be initiated by the player, but may rely on the players input (such as, for example playing as the USA and being asked to choose between blockading Japan or attempting to invade) and would depended on how well the war is going. Such an invasion would last a lot longer than invasions of possessions and could either be repulsed (either behind the scenes like usual land combat or in the case of a naval invasion be repulsed in tactical combat), stalemated (more likely to happen in early game), or the invaded nation is overrun and faces harsh peace terms.
     

     That's the jist of it. Factors such as VP score, allied vs enemy naval strength in the targeted seazone, borders, and finally invasion range would determine if such an invasion is launched. The player would be given a choice, essentially "Yes, go a head and invade, the Navy will support" or "No, not necessary". Nations that do not share borders will have to rely on amphibious invasions. Those that don't, particularity Europe and USA can be invaded by land but will still require amphibious invasions to support. As for the costs? Maybe a monthly invasion cost until the first actual amphibious invasion. Or maybe instead the player has their budget cut as money is funneled into the overall invasion. As for nations with multiple home regions? I'm still thinking about that tbh.
     
     
     
  
  
  

[gornik]

Here are my invasion ideas based on dia ones.

- What do you need first for colonial land battles? Supply, supply, more supply and some more supply to be sure. So every possession has "basic" level of supply, gain from country overall resources, its VP value + batteries/airbases (represent overall strategical defenses and stocks). When you decide to invade somewhere, you should first choose base for preparations. Original invasion radius is rather small, but "army base" increase it every month (for the price of money, of course) When radius reach target, then supplies for invasion itself begin to stock. When it comes to 4:1 against intelligence-based enemy level, you may start invasion, or wait some more time to be sure. Then every turn supplies from "army base" deliver to invaded Possession. Depending of their delivery, every turn land combat took place with standard events (all those land-battle: advance, gaining strategical terrain, disaster, etc), consuming supplies of both sides. You may stop stocking additional supplies, but if they end before victory, you'll loose. When you win, unused supplies stay at stock for some time, decaying at speed, basing on Base points of Possession, so you may use them again. Defender should supply battle too, though he may decline (or be blockaded), so defenders will fight before all local supplies ended. Every Convoy battle, Bombardment, Tactical Landing etc lost in this area means significant setback in collecting supplies. Every convoy battle loose anywhere else means small setback in it, but additionally lower supply level in random possessions somewhere else. Amphibious techs now should regulate not invasion radius, but outcome of amphibious assaults (especially major one, which may gone River Clyde without them) and speed of collecting/decaying supplies.

- Every Possession may have check in code: IsIsland 0/1. If Posession is not an island, and is in minimal invasion radius, there is chance, that it will be invaded by land (without major landing).

- (Major rework) Base-based map, instead of Possession based. Every Possession has Bases, which track independently. Every Base should be captured separately, with direct amphibious operation or as result of Army advance (in this case, siege is likely to be established first for some turns). Ships in the area, damaged enough (3-4 month in dock), have chance to be captured with base or scuttled. As previous owner certainly try to destroy their mechanics, you should decide if you want to pay for their repair (12 month of full building payment for BB) to return them into service (and all this time ships stay at base in question, so they may be recaptured once again). During siege, ships may get additional damage during strategical turns. If all bases are captured, then possession supply flow reduced ( but not cutoff - there still are minor ports...), and even Indian Palladium may fall in your hands - after year or so of costly land battles, which you need to feed all this time. This may be applied to Home possession too, though capturing it means Total Victory with 20 points (and changing government in that country).

- With such system, traditional land battle events should be restricted - You should spend money for them only if you have home in the same area with enemy one. No more "major front breakthroughs" in Japanese-Italian wars!  

- AMC Raiders during blockade also perform as blockade runners to supply colonies and mainland with effectiveness depended of their free tonnage in design.

Of course, colonial battles in 10+ possessions should influence at unrest level.

[rimbecano]

Jul 28, 2020 22:35:35 GMT -6 dia said:

High-Value Invasions: This is exactly the same as above, but for possessions with a value greater than 10. Basically the same, except to invade would require not one, but two or possibly more invasion battles. Would be significantly more costly to set as a target, but only have to pay up to the first invasion.

This actually used to be possible. I think the more unreasonable invasion blocks caused by the introduction of the restriction (e.g, Sicily) would be better corrected by rebalancing posession value than by introducing a special mechanic.

[dia]

Jul 30, 2020 12:27:06 GMT -6 rimbecano said:

Jul 28, 2020 22:35:35 GMT -6 dia said:

High-Value Invasions: This is exactly the same as above, but for possessions with a value greater than 10. Basically the same, except to invade would require not one, but two or possibly more invasion battles. Would be significantly more costly to set as a target, but only have to pay up to the first invasion.

This actually used to be possible. I think the more unreasonable invasion blocks caused by the introduction of the restriction (e.g, Sicily) would be better corrected by rebalancing posession value than by introducing a special mechanic.

I was thinking more along the lines of India and South Africa, but a re-balancing of possession value would probably be needed anyway to create more high-value possessions to justify such a mechanic. Personally I think there should be more possessions in general, particularity in Europe, especially if you ever plan on going with the Land/Amphibious combat idea.

Since we're talking about possessions, another feature I'd like to see is the addition of some high-value neutral possessions, like South American countries, Spain, Turkey, Sweden, etc. They'd have a high value and be treated as "lesser powers". To explain it i'll quote from a previous thread:

I'd love to have neutral nations that spawn outdated generic designed light ships and/or coastal defense battleships depending on their value if the player tries to invade them. With more neutral possessions including in South America. Imagine a diplomatic event like ones we get now involving neutral nations, but it involves an actual peacetime scenario where you find yourself sending ships for a onetime face off against some small fleet of spawned South American dreadnoughts. Or imagine playing as a leading naval power, going to war, and getting an event that give you the ability to seize a neutral ship or dreadnought that was under construction in your docks.

Their ships would be pre-designed and only exist for a scenario, sort of like transports, merchant ships, and KE patrol boats. The nations themselves would not be considered opponents, would not be included in the almanac, would not build ships, have home areas, the target for spying, etc. They'd just be a flag on the map and a potential source of activity during peacetime, or a catalyst for war.

[potrero]

Hell, I’m still wondering why I get the “Latest Army offensive was a disaster, stopped after just 200 yards” event when I’m playing the US in a war with Germany, Italy, or France, with exactly zero land borders and hundreds/thousands of miles of empty ocean separating my possessions from theirs.