Question about Surprise Attack

[dia]

I'm looking to give/take away the surprise attack attribute for nations during a campaign. I know it's possible to set this attribute during a game by editing the game file, but does there have to be a surprise attack type of mission in the [nation]WarInfo.dat file for a surprise attack to trigger?

To be honest, I don't really understand the [nation]WarInfo.dat files. It was my understanding battles were randomly generated , but the [nation]WarInfo.dat files makes them seem scripted. But I've had battles not listed in those files so I'm just kind of confused.

In particular I am trying to give myself surprise attack in my Italy game. It's post 1955 and I'm on the verge of war with France. I fully expect them to collapse within a few months due to the many subs my ally has and the blockade. For the sake of it, I wanted to try a surprise attack. My carriers are mostly fighters and dive bombers (role playing that my TBs are all twin engine aircraft and not carrier capable) and I wanted to see how such an attack would play out.

I've edited the game file, but a surprise attack won't trigger after dozens of attempts at different times throughout the year. I'm fully mobilized and France has plenty of forces in the Med. I attempted to temporarily edited the ItalyWarInfo.dat file with the following entry, but still nothing.

[Nation2Mission10]
Title=Surprise attack
Location=Marseille
DeclinePenalty=400
AttackingSide=0
WeatherZone=1
Colonies=0
Destroyers=1
BDR=0
MaxShipType=0
BattleSize=1
CenterPoint=50649E 423210N
MeetAtCenterPoint=0
DefenderSurprised=1
StartPoints0=51046E 425204N
HomePoints0=00000E 00000N
StartpointRndDir0=110
StartpointRndDist0=49
StartPoints1=45203E 421654N
HomePoints1=42430E 405748N
StartpointRndDir1=30
StartpointRndDist1=80
WaypointLL=65537E 430517N
WaypointRndDir=108
WaypointRndDist=70
Objectives0=00000E 00000N
ObjectiveValue0=0
ObjectiveType0=0
Objectives1=00000E 00000N
ObjectiveValue1=0
ObjectiveType1=0
CruiserPatrolPoints0=44915E 431216N
CruiserPatrolPoints1=53245E 430353N
CruiserPatrolPoints2=00000E 00000N
CruiserPatrolPoints3=00000E 00000N
PatrolWaypoints0=00000E 00000N
PatrolWaypoints1=00000E 00000N
PatrolWaypoints2=00000E 00000N
PatrolWaypoints3=00000E 00000N
SubmarinePoints0=42052E 423132N
SubmarinePoints1=44048E 420632N
SubmarinePoints2=53209E 420940N
SubmarinePoints3=00000E 00000N
SubmarinePoints4=45707E 425410N
SubmarinePoints5=50345E 431309N
SubmarinePoints6=55807E 424612N
SubmarinePoints7=00000E 00000N
MerchantShipPoints0=00000E 00000N
MerchantShipPoints1=00000E 00000N
MerchantShipPoints2=00000E 00000N
MerchantShipPoints3=00000E 00000N
LocalBaseName0=
LocalBaseLocation0=00000E 00000N
LocalBaseExitNavPoint0=00000E 00000N
LocalBaseName1=
LocalBaseLocation1=00000E 00000N
LocalBaseExitNavPoint1=00000E 00000N

[dia]

Bumping this because I'd like to figure this out before continuing my game. I'm taken another look at the savegame file, but I still can't figure out what is preventing a surprise attack from triggering. Is it possible that editing the warinfo file does nothing if you're already mid-game? If it's not possible to edit a saved game to give a nation the surprise attack ability, I'd like to know so I can give up and continue my game.

[oaktree]

I found "surprise attack" scenario specifications in the MapData.dat file. Generally associated with one of the possessions coded for there; SE and NE Asia plus one for Hawaii (Pearl Harbor) as well.

Could it be that the warinfo files are not used to check for the potential?

[dia]

Aug 26, 2020 19:46:22 GMT -6 oaktree said:

I found "surprise attack" scenario specifications in the MapData.dat file. Generally associated with one of the possessions coded for there; SE and NE Asia plus one for Hawaii (Pearl Harbor) as well.

Could it be that the warinfo files are not used to check for the potential?

That seems to be it. It seems setting the "defendersurprised" flag under Marseille in the MapData.dat file triggers a surprise attack, though the fleet positioning needs some work. So this means setting a surprise attack in the warinfor file doesn't do anything then, which is odd because Japan has several surprise attack missions in its warinfo file. Can a dev chime in on this?

[dia]

I've taken the following from the stock game Japan files;
List of possessions targeted for surprise attack in the JapanWarInfo File:
The Philippines, Kiautschou Bay, Weihaiwei, Kwang-Chou-Wan, and the Liaotung Peninsula

List of ports targeted for surprise attack in the MapData folder:
Singapore, Soerabaja, Manila, Saint Jaques, Cam Ranh Bay, Fort Bayard, Hong Kong, Haikou, Vladivostok, Weihaiwei, Tsingtau, Port Arthur, Chenampo, and Pearl Harbor


As all the possessions listed in the warinfo file are represented in the MapData, is it reasonable to assume that the [nation]WarInfo file has no bearing on the target of a surprise attack? Which means surprise attacks are limited to these 14 locations?

[dia]

Re-posting from Discord about my custom Italian surprise attack on France. To get the surprise attack to trigger, I had to edit the Marseille entry in the MapData.dat file. What I edited is in the quote below. I'll admit it was rather crudely set up battle and I'm not really sure what I was doing or what all the lines mean. I wish there was a guide for setting up missions that explained the parameters.

I set the battle up using the Custom Nation editor by editing the 10th mission of the ItalyWarInfo.dat file (I attached the ItalyWarInfo.dat in case anyone wanted to visually checkout the battle setup using the Editor). Then I took that information and edited the corresponding lines in the MapData.dat file to match. To reiterate, just editing the ItalyWarInfo.dat alone did not trigger a surprise attack. I used the surprise attack missions in the JapanWarInfo.dat file as a guide to create this mission. In retrospect, I should have used the surprise attack data in the MapData.dat file as my guide. That may explain some of the oddities that I'll be listing later. Unfortunately the editor doesn't edit the mapdata file, but you can still use it as a graphical guide. In the future, I'll base the custom surprise attack off the surprise attacks in the MapData.dat file and just use the Editor as a graphical guide.

By the way, after conducting this mission I exited the game and restored the original ItalyWarInfo.dat and MapData.dat files. I want to use this experiance to write up a guide on how to enable player planned custom non-Japanese surprise attacks (planned as in you can choose the target - the 80% chance can't be circumvented unless you save scum). But I'm still waiting on clarification from the devs over a few things, particularly the role of the surprise attack missions in the JapanWarInfo.dat. And if the ports listed in my last post are the actual only candidates for a surprise attack.

MapArea1Possession9WM0Title=Surprise attack
MapArea1Possession9WM0Location=Marseille
MapArea1Possession9WM0DeclinePenalty=0
MapArea1Possession9WM0Destroyers=1
MapArea1Possession9WM0BDR=0
MapArea1Possession9WM0MaxShipType=0
MapArea1Possession9WM0BattleSize=1
MapArea1Possession9WM0CenterPoint=51859E 425215N
MapArea1Possession9WM0MeetAtCenterPoint=0
MapArea1Possession9WM0DefenderSurprised=1
MapArea1Possession9WM0StartPoints0=51225E 431257N
MapArea1Possession9WM0HomePoints0=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0StartpointRndDir0=100
MapArea1Possession9WM0StartpointRndDist0=20
MapArea1Possession9WM0StartPoints1=50659E 422931N
MapArea1Possession9WM0HomePoints1=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0StartpointRndDir1=110
MapArea1Possession9WM0StartpointRndDist1=50
MapArea1Possession9WM0WaypointLL=51538E 424052N
MapArea1Possession9WM0WaypointRndDir=108
MapArea1Possession9WM0WaypointRndDist=40
MapArea1Possession9WM0Objectives0=51335E 431616N
MapArea1Possession9WM0ObjectiveValue0=800
MapArea1Possession9WM0ObjectiveType0=0
MapArea1Possession9WM0Objectives1=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0ObjectiveValue1=99
MapArea1Possession9WM0ObjectiveType1=0
MapArea1Possession9WM0CruiserPatrolPoints0=44531E 430909N
MapArea1Possession9WM0CruiserPatrolPoints1=54152E 425939N
MapArea1Possession9WM0CruiserPatrolPoints2=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0CruiserPatrolPoints3=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0PatrolWaypoints0=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0PatrolWaypoints1=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0PatrolWaypoints2=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0PatrolWaypoints3=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0SubmarinePoints0=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0SubmarinePoints1=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0SubmarinePoints2=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0SubmarinePoints3=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0SubmarinePoints4=45327E 431350N
MapArea1Possession9WM0SubmarinePoints5=51102E 430900N
MapArea1Possession9WM0SubmarinePoints6=52950E 430729N
MapArea1Possession9WM0SubmarinePoints7=51050E 430155N
MapArea1Possession9WM0MerchantShipPoints0=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0MapArea1Possession9WM0MerchantShipPoints1=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0MerchantShipPoints2=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0MerchantShipPoints3=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0LocalBaseName0=
MapArea1Possession9WM0LocalBaseLocation0=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0LocalBaseExitNavPoint0=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0LocalBaseName1=
MapArea1Possession9WM0LocalBaseLocation1=00000E 00000N
MapArea1Possession9WM0LocalBaseExitNavPoint1=00000E 00000N

So here's the results of my attack. Just for a little background: No carrier TBs. DBs and Fs only. My game rules in keeping with the land carrier doctrine are that TBs are twin engined and not carrier capable. Carriers are for local defense and limited strike. I ran this battle a couple times, this was the one I took my time with and will be canon in my game. The results were mostly the same every time, not once did I ever sink more than two ships. This was actually one of the less ideal ones, as the weather turned to **** as my second strike was approaching the enemy and the entire strike flew to Spain and ran out of fuel. Unfortunately most of my fighter squadrons were using an older unreliable fighter with a terrible bomb load. Every time I would launch a strike and turn tail, launching strikes as I ran. Usually a second with leftover aircraft that couldn't be spotted for the first strike, then a third strike from the returnees of the first strike. The enemy would always retaliate with air power.

Some interesting things of note, which may be a result of how I set the mission up. First, enemy AA was on alert from the moment the battle started. I thought maybe this was a tech thing, but when I checked my past Japan game, I never experienced AA like this, even from an attack that happened in 1968. Enemy CAP was also up very quickly. It was never up during the initial wave. In this battle, the first bombs fell at 0638. The first air combat with enemy CAP was at 0745. That would have been my second strike, or the aircraft that couldn't be spotted for the initial strike aka the ones that couldn't fly off immediately.

Second, in every run I did, I would suffer from post battle submarine torpedo attacks and mine hits no matter what. Every single time. Also my own subs never did anything in any run, but that could just be bad luck.

Unfortunately I didn't take the time to check to see if the enemy ships were already underway at the start of the battle. Based on a screenshot I took of the battle positions and the one ship log I saved, I'm confident that the enemy was indeed stationary during the initial wave and evading air attacks by the second. So up and running within an hour, which according to logs of past Japan games, is normal.

I do plan on more in depth testing of custom surprise attacks, but for the moment I'm in a very extended war and my only other available save is Japan.

Attachments:

ItalyWarInfo.dat (96.85 KB)