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Post by Adseria on Aug 22, 2020 15:35:21 GMT -6
Looking around the interwebs, I've noticed that, while there are a fair number of games about designing warships, all of the tank games seem to have the player driving the tanks, rather than designing them. Can anyone recommend any decent games in which you design tanks and pit them against one another, like in RTW or UA:D?
EDIT: Oh, and by the way, I'm not looking for games like Robocraft, where you build a vehicle out of cubes and glue on guns. I'm also not looking for games like Crossout, where the focus is on "normal" vehicles (like cars) with guns and spikes stuck on, Mad Max-style. I'm looking for games where it gives you a variety of components, and the objective is to combine them efficiently to create the best tank possible, with the end result looking like something that might conceivably be used in a real war, whether that be one of the world wars, the cold war, the modern day, or anywhere in between.
Also, seeing as I'm here editing anyway, I'll point out a game I just found called "Arms Trade Tycoon Tanks" (https://tycoontanks.com/), which isn't out yet, but looks like exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for.
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Post by nuclearnadal on Aug 23, 2020 23:08:41 GMT -6
Looking around the interwebs, I've noticed that, while there are a fair number of games about designing warships, all of the tank games seem to have the player driving the tanks, rather than designing them. Can anyone recommend any decent games in which you design tanks and pit them against one another, like in RTW or UA:D? EDIT: Oh, and by the way, I'm not looking for games like Robocraft, where you build a vehicle out of cubes and glue on guns. I'm also not looking for games like Crossout, where the focus is on "normal" vehicles (like cars) with guns and spikes stuck on, Mad Max-style. I'm looking for games where it gives you a variety of components, and the objective is to combine them efficiently to create the best tank possible, with the end result looking like something that might conceivably be used in a real war, whether that be one of the world wars, the cold war, the modern day, or anywhere in between. Also, seeing as I'm here editing anyway, I'll point out a game I just found called "Arms Trade Tycoon Tanks" (https://tycoontanks.com/), which isn't out yet, but looks like exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. Steel Panthers 2. Free to download, 1995, need DOSBox (also free). Very slow going game, can't edit "irl" tanks or anything but the unit list is massive.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Aug 24, 2020 8:44:35 GMT -6
Looking around the interwebs, I've noticed that, while there are a fair number of games about designing warships, all of the tank games seem to have the player driving the tanks, rather than designing them. Can anyone recommend any decent games in which you design tanks and pit them against one another, like in RTW or UA:D? EDIT: Oh, and by the way, I'm not looking for games like Robocraft, where you build a vehicle out of cubes and glue on guns. I'm also not looking for games like Crossout, where the focus is on "normal" vehicles (like cars) with guns and spikes stuck on, Mad Max-style. I'm looking for games where it gives you a variety of components, and the objective is to combine them efficiently to create the best tank possible, with the end result looking like something that might conceivably be used in a real war, whether that be one of the world wars, the cold war, the modern day, or anywhere in between. Also, seeing as I'm here editing anyway, I'll point out a game I just found called "Arms Trade Tycoon Tanks" (https://tycoontanks.com/), which isn't out yet, but looks like exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. My recommendation would be Fury Software, Strategic Command European Theatre. You can purchase different types of units and do research on my different technologies. It's been around a while, but you could check with old-games.com
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Post by mycophobia on Aug 24, 2020 16:06:14 GMT -6
The closest thing I can think of is Land Doctrine, available on steam. It does have that tank design element with settings like armor thickness, guns, engines etc, coupled with ability to design doctrine/equipment loadout(but not equipment themselves) for infantry as well. It does suffers from having a very barebone campaign and poor implementation making them game extremely micro heavy to the point of being rather annoying. The idea was good but the execution leave much to be desired, still, if you want to give it a look. That tank tycoon game looks very interesting, thanks for putting it on my radar
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Post by trifler on Aug 24, 2020 22:09:28 GMT -6
Yup. Arms Trade Tycoon: Tanks is still early in development, but it sounds like what you (and I) are looking for.
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Post by trifler on Aug 25, 2020 18:43:24 GMT -6
The closest thing I can think of is Land Doctrine, available on steam. It does have that tank design element with settings like armor thickness, guns, engines etc, coupled with ability to design doctrine/equipment loadout(but not equipment themselves) for infantry as well. It does suffers from having a very barebone campaign and poor implementation making them game extremely micro heavy to the point of being rather annoying. The idea was good but the execution leave much to be desired, still, if you want to give it a look. I decided to check out that Land Doctrine game. I see what you mean about the game map. I wouldn't say it has a "campaign" at all. In fact, I think a campaign would make it a much better game.
Anyway, I was wondering if you have any pointers. I didn't find any guides, YouTube videos, or a wiki for it online. In particular: - Do you need Close Combat skill at all in an urban environment (i.e. does urban start out at like 400 yards and then close to 0)? Or is it just Urban Combat skill in urban environments and Close Combat skill in other environments? - If the AT damage graph shows 40 damage at 0 range, does that mean that 40mm of armor will be impervious (except for weak spots)? Or are they unrelated? - If the above is true, do I need to match it (40mm) or exceed it (45mm)?
- How important have you found off-road capability to be?
- Do you prefer going AT grenades or Recoil-less Rifles for your first infantry anti-tank upgrade over the mines and molatovs? - Is there any reason not to just equip a battalion entirely with LMGs at the start of the game? The firepower is phenomenal.
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Post by trifler on Aug 26, 2020 4:56:26 GMT -6
To the original post: If you're willing to consider RTS type gameplay, you might try checking out Warzone 2100. It's an old game that fans have updated to run on modern computers. They also improved the textures, although the polygons are still the same. Anyway, the great thing about this game is the extensive tech tree. It's about 50x larger than the tech tree in Earth 2150. Unit design is modular, but there's a lot to choose from, and you need a wide variety of unit designs to win. The game also has a cool system of transporting units from the base into the field. The only other game I know of that did this was Earth 2150.
If you're only looking for turn-based, grand strategy, or management/tycoon games, then never mind.
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Post by mycophobia on Aug 26, 2020 11:50:11 GMT -6
The closest thing I can think of is Land Doctrine, available on steam. It does have that tank design element with settings like armor thickness, guns, engines etc, coupled with ability to design doctrine/equipment loadout(but not equipment themselves) for infantry as well. It does suffers from having a very barebone campaign and poor implementation making them game extremely micro heavy to the point of being rather annoying. The idea was good but the execution leave much to be desired, still, if you want to give it a look. I decided to check out that Land Doctrine game. I see what you mean about the game map. I wouldn't say it has a "campaign" at all. In fact, I think a campaign would make it a much better game.
Anyway, I was wondering if you have any pointers. I didn't find any guides, YouTube videos, or a wiki for it online. In particular: - Do you need Close Combat skill at all in an urban environment (i.e. does urban start out at like 400 yards and then close to 0)? Or is it just Urban Combat skill in urban environments and Close Combat skill in other environments? - If the AT damage graph shows 40 damage at 0 range, does that mean that 40mm of armor will be impervious (except for weak spots)? Or are they unrelated? - If the above is true, do I need to match it (40mm) or exceed it (45mm)?
- How important have you found off-road capability to be?
- Do you prefer going AT grenades or Recoil-less Rifles for your first infantry anti-tank upgrade over the mines and molatovs? - Is there any reason not to just equip a battalion entirely with LMGs at the start of the game? The firepower is phenomenal.
I haven't played it too far myself mostly due to being annoyed with having to manually replenish all my battalions/costly micro'ing all the units around. But regarding your questions: - I believe both close combat and urban combat skill affect a unit's ability in urban combat, but I haven't paid attention to the range issue in Urban. - I believe exceeding the AT damage is necessary to block the shot, however bear in mind at closer range side shots are much more likely to happen (I think is side shot chance are also partly affected by unit speed) -I generally got rofl stomped by the AI so I can't really comment on the other three questions xP. Havent thought of LMG spamming tho, probably will give it a try
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Post by tordenskjold on Aug 26, 2020 15:57:02 GMT -6
Looking around the interwebs, I've noticed that, while there are a fair number of games about designing warships, all of the tank games seem to have the player driving the tanks, rather than designing them. Can anyone recommend any decent games in which you design tanks and pit them against one another, like in RTW or UA:D? EDIT: Oh, and by the way, I'm not looking for games like Robocraft, where you build a vehicle out of cubes and glue on guns. I'm also not looking for games like Crossout, where the focus is on "normal" vehicles (like cars) with guns and spikes stuck on, Mad Max-style. I'm looking for games where it gives you a variety of components, and the objective is to combine them efficiently to create the best tank possible, with the end result looking like something that might conceivably be used in a real war, whether that be one of the world wars, the cold war, the modern day, or anywhere in between. Also, seeing as I'm here editing anyway, I'll point out a game I just found called "Arms Trade Tycoon Tanks" (https://tycoontanks.com/), which isn't out yet, but looks like exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. Steel Panthers 2. Free to download, 1995, need DOSBox (also free). Very slow going game, can't edit "irl" tanks or anything but the unit list is massive. Thumbs up for this as far as the "combat" side of tank design is concerned. Yes, you can indeed edit every single unit on the battlefield in the SP series, allowing you to specify e.g. armament (up to four slots to be filled with everything from "Misc small arms" to 203mm guns, the latter surely being a good link here to RtW... *g*), armor thickness and slope (!) on each side of the hull and the turret, speed, crew etc. The downside is however that you indeed have to do all that manually in custom-edited scenarios, which is to say that you cannot e.g. play a campaign or so with your particularly well-proven tank designs (at least as far as I know, there actually might be tons of options to include your customized units in the "regular" rosters of the featured armies). Apart from that, the SP series also has a quite useful models for ballistics and line of sight and a number of other outstanding features, which makes these games always very interesting to play.
To start with, I'd obviously recommend not going back to any of those old DOS parts, but rather considering one of the modern F2P forks like Steel Panthers: World At War, Steel Panthers: Main Battle Tank or Steel Panthers: World War II. Personally, I prefer SPWAW.
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Post by Adseria on Aug 27, 2020 1:30:27 GMT -6
Ok, it's been a few days since I checked this thread. Let's see if I can get caught up. I've tried Steel Panthers in the past; it's not what I was looking for. I'm not really a big fan of turn-based tactics games, and SP2 doesn't have that element of tank design that I was looking for. I haven't tried Strategic Command, but, from what I've seen, it's very similar to Gary Grigsby's "War In The ______" series, which I enjoy, but it's not what I was looking for in this thread. I've just downloaded Land Doctrine and Warzone 2100, and I'm going to try them now. You can probably expect an edit some time in the next half hour, unless one or both are fantastic, in which case you can expect it next week. EDIT: Ok, I've tried both. Warzone 2100 looks a bit outdated for my tastes, but meh, it's free. Land doctrine is not exactly what I was looking for (I was hoping for a "tactical battle" mode, rather than an abstracted battle system), but it seems pretty decent, and the design system is along the right sort of lines (if a little basic at the start of the game). I can see what you meant about the micro, though.
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Post by trifler on Sept 1, 2020 5:42:58 GMT -6
Just a quick warning: Panzer Doctrine is billed as a sequel (sort of) to Land Doctrine. It's the game the developer made immediately after Land Doctrine, and he says he stopped working on Land Doctrine early to focus on it. Unfortunately, I found out the hard way that Panzer Doctrine doesn't include the tank design system.
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Post by noshurviverse on Sept 1, 2020 15:42:58 GMT -6
So, this is going to be a recommendation that's kind of off the mark, but it's also strangely relevant. In 2003 there was a game released called Impossible Creatures. The entire premise was an RTS where you created your own units. And the manner you do so is by taking two animals and fusing them together. So in a sense you can create your own tanks, if you accept a twisted abomination of a scorpion crossed with a rhino a "tank".
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Post by trifler on Sept 2, 2020 4:51:11 GMT -6
So, this is going to be a recommendation that's kind of off the mark, but it's also strangely relevant. In 2003 there was a game released called Impossible Creatures. The entire premise was an RTS where you created your own units. And the manner you do so is by taking two animals and fusing them together. So in a sense you can create your own tanks, if you accept a twisted abomination of a scorpion crossed with a rhino a "tank". That was indeed a fun game.
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Post by Adseria on Sept 2, 2020 8:05:20 GMT -6
So, this is going to be a recommendation that's kind of off the mark, but it's also strangely relevant. In 2003 there was a game released called Impossible Creatures. The entire premise was an RTS where you created your own units. And the manner you do so is by taking two animals and fusing them together. So in a sense you can create your own tanks, if you accept a twisted abomination of a scorpion crossed with a rhino a "tank". Yes, I've heard of that game before (in fact, it's already on my Steam wishlist.) The thing is, if I don't consider a car with a gun on top to be a tank, do you really think I'd consider hybrid creatures tanks?
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Post by trifler on Sept 6, 2020 5:28:00 GMT -6
So, this is going to be a recommendation that's kind of off the mark, but it's also strangely relevant. In 2003 there was a game released called Impossible Creatures. The entire premise was an RTS where you created your own units. And the manner you do so is by taking two animals and fusing them together. So in a sense you can create your own tanks, if you accept a twisted abomination of a scorpion crossed with a rhino a "tank". Yes, I've heard of that game before (in fact, it's already on my Steam wishlist.) The thing is, if I don't consider a car with a gun on top to be a tank, do you really think I'd consider hybrid creatures tanks? Sadly, even if we take all of the games with unit design in any form, they are far from numerous. It's a shame because it's something I always look for.
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