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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 11, 2020 14:26:31 GMT -6
I would like to suggest that the reserve and mothballed fleet system be changed. First, in fact, a mothballed fleet was just a colloquial term used by sailors to denote ships in reserve status. My suggestion is to eliminate the mothballed status. Under the reserve status, there should be three categories: 1. Ships in reserve, maintained and upgraded which can be activated within one to three months. Denote these as B category ships. 2. Ships in reserve, that are not upgraded and would need possibly six to twelve months of upgrading to be ready for service. These would designated C category ships. 3. Ships in this category are not maintained and are scheduled for disposal but which can be removed and updated if the situation is called for. These ship might take over a year to be fully operational. These would be denoted as D category ships. My desire to make these reserve status more exact but not more complex. A ship in D category would not cost any money for storage but could be brought out when needed or upgraded to a higher status. I believe after a period of time, it would automatically be disposed of and the cost applied. The player would be warned of an impending scrapping to give him or her time to modify the ship's status. My hope is that this will not increase the complexity of the game but bring it closer to real historical procedures. I've circled the "mothballed" gun to illustrate. This is where the term came from.
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Post by nimrod on Sept 11, 2020 15:58:42 GMT -6
Would second this and agree that the time frames proposed look reasonable to me.
Have thought that being able to go from mothballed to active fleet within a a month was weird. Big issue on my end was how do you man potentially 20-30 ships within that time period as well as conduct more extensive maintenance that was neglected. Yes crew quality in game would be poor, but it can take a month plus just to get ammo, food and other stores to the port and into the ship. Let alone do a shakedown cruise / get guns calibrated, etc.
My understanding was that their can be three types of non-active duty: 1. Commisioned, but not on active duty / deployed. Trained crews are readily available for the ship but not berthed on the ship (example of this was AMC's for example that used merchant marine sailors with Navy gunners). Ship is generally not in a state to deploy (ammo and sensitive cypto and other electronic gear offloaded) but is kept in a mostly oceangoing state where it can get to a dry-dock under its own power. Can be brought to operational status fairly quickly - US Ready Reserve Force / NDRF is an example and ships can sail within 20-120 days. 2. Decommissioned and lightly manned and or equipped. Ship lacks trained crew, and ship receives yearly care to address sea worthiness issues, exercise equipment but not much beyond that. Guns are out of calibration - so an extended work-up time for the crew is needed on top of getting the ship ready. 3. Decommissioned and unmanned - museum / awaiting scrapping.
USS New Jersey was decommissioned in 1969 and reactivated in July 1981 and recommissioned Dec 1982 and deployed June 1983 due to equipment maintenance / upgrades and lack of trained crew. Additionally the 16" charges had to be reworked as they were outside of specs...
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 11, 2020 17:13:12 GMT -6
Would second this and agree that the time frames proposed look reasonable to me. Have thought that being able to go from mothballed to active fleet within a a month was weird. Big issue on my end was how do you man potentially 20-30 ships within that time period as well as conduct more extensive maintenance that was neglected. Yes crew quality in game would be poor, but it can take a month plus just to get ammo, food and other stores to the port and into the ship. Let alone do a shakedown cruise / get guns calibrated, etc. My understanding was that their can be three types of non-active duty: 1. Commisioned, but not on active duty / deployed. Trained crews are readily available for the ship but not berthed on the ship (example of this was AMC's for example that used merchant marine sailors with Navy gunners). Ship is generally not in a state to deploy (ammo and sensitive cypto and other electronic gear offloaded) but is kept in a mostly oceangoing state where it can get to a dry-dock under its own power. Can be brought to operational status fairly quickly - US Ready Reserve Force / NDRF is an example and ships can sail within 20-120 days. 2. Decommissioned and lightly manned and or equipped. Ship lacks trained crew, and ship receives yearly care to address sea worthiness issues, exercise equipment but not much beyond that. Guns are out of calibration - so an extended work-up time for the crew is needed on top of getting the ship ready. 3. Decommissioned and unmanned - museum / awaiting scrapping. USS New Jersey was decommissioned in 1969 and reactivated in July 1981 and recommissioned Dec 1982 and deployed June 1983 due to equipment maintenance / upgrades and lack of trained crew. Additionally the 16" charges had to be reworked as they were outside of specs... Thanks for the support. I was thinking about terminology and maybe these three terms would be more useful and simpler. A: Active reserve - It could be become active within a three month period. However, it might need some upgrades, maybe not. B:Inactive reserve - It would have to be upgraded and then become active. These ships would need six to twelve months. C: Outmoded - These ships are essentially waiting for scrapping, but could be rebuilt, upgraded in at least a year or more.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 11, 2020 19:50:38 GMT -6
Just some clarification. In 1912 when the Atlantic and Pacific Reserve fleets were established, these reserve ships were still operating ships but with greatly reduced schedules. The status of ships and their designations have changed over the years.
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Post by aquelarrefox on Sept 12, 2020 16:41:19 GMT -6
Would second this and agree that the time frames proposed look reasonable to me. Have thought that being able to go from mothballed to active fleet within a a month was weird. Big issue on my end was how do you man potentially 20-30 ships within that time period as well as conduct more extensive maintenance that was neglected. Yes crew quality in game would be poor, but it can take a month plus just to get ammo, food and other stores to the port and into the ship. Let alone do a shakedown cruise / get guns calibrated, etc. My understanding was that their can be three types of non-active duty: 1. Commisioned, but not on active duty / deployed. Trained crews are readily available for the ship but not berthed on the ship (example of this was AMC's for example that used merchant marine sailors with Navy gunners). Ship is generally not in a state to deploy (ammo and sensitive cypto and other electronic gear offloaded) but is kept in a mostly oceangoing state where it can get to a dry-dock under its own power. Can be brought to operational status fairly quickly - US Ready Reserve Force / NDRF is an example and ships can sail within 20-120 days. 2. Decommissioned and lightly manned and or equipped. Ship lacks trained crew, and ship receives yearly care to address sea worthiness issues, exercise equipment but not much beyond that. Guns are out of calibration - so an extended work-up time for the crew is needed on top of getting the ship ready. 3. Decommissioned and unmanned - museum / awaiting scrapping. USS New Jersey was decommissioned in 1969 and reactivated in July 1981 and recommissioned Dec 1982 and deployed June 1983 due to equipment maintenance / upgrades and lack of trained crew. Additionally the 16" charges had to be reworked as they were outside of specs... You convince me, a ship waiting for scrap if it's move to another status it will need some mouth of rebuilt to get into active again a ship fur scraping could trigger a event to sell it got a bigger price than scrap. Wu needed to get upper level
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Post by stevethecat on Sept 20, 2020 9:45:35 GMT -6
In the UK we have used reserve, laid up, decomissioned, mothballed and at one point a C rating for the state of decomissioning. So the US may use a pure 'in reserve status' but that doesn't mean everyone else does. We did the recomissioning of a Type 42 when I worked at a subsidary of Babcock which raised the rating of the ship from an entirely decomissioned state to an 'emergency reserve', ie, only needed working up to be ready for active. We did a brief bit of work in Australia that used a different system where Mothballed was typically only followed by the tag 'Awaiting disposal'.
So it's a whole spectrum of different statuses and while the fairly simple Active/reserve/mothball set-up of RTW really doesn't cover all those grey areas I think it's representative and intuitive enoguh for the game. Althoguh I would say taking a ship from MB to active is a pretty huge task and that should be better covered.
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Post by aeson on Sept 20, 2020 17:59:41 GMT -6
Two things: Firstly, I would guess that the difference between "Reserve Fleet" and "Mothballed" within the game is meant to be more the difference between a ship that has a low-readiness crew (e.g. the ship nominally has a full crew assigned, but all of them are reservists and so the ship is only actually fully crewed during something like a test mobilization or a big training exercise, or it has a nucleus/skeleton Active Duty crew and the balance will be made up with reservists and recruits come wartime) and a ship that doesn't have a crew than the difference between a reserve ship that you occasionally modernize and a reserve ship that you'll only modernize if you reactivate it.
Secondly, the distinctions between Categories B, C, and D seem to me to be things that are more or less already in the game, it's just that it's not an explicit status - essentially, of the categories listed by the OP, Category B is a mothballed ship that I refit occasionally with new fire control systems or to remove (O) status, Category C is a mothballed ship that I won't bother refitting unless I'm about to reactivate it, and Category D is a mothballed ship that I'm only keeping around because for some reason I'm not quite comfortable getting rid of it yet.
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Post by aquelarrefox on Sept 21, 2020 7:59:54 GMT -6
Two things: Firstly, I would guess that the difference between "Reserve Fleet" and "Mothballed" within the game is meant to be more the difference between a ship that has a low-readiness crew (e.g. the ship nominally has a full crew assigned, but all of them are reservists and so the ship is only actually fully crewed during something like a test mobilization or a big training exercise, or it has a nucleus/skeleton Active Duty crew and the balance will be made up with reservists and recruits come wartime) and a ship that doesn't have a crew than the difference between a reserve ship that you occasionally modernize and a reserve ship that you'll only modernize if you reactivate it.
Secondly, the distinctions between Categories B, C, and D seem to me to be things that are more or less already in the game, it's just that it's not an explicit status - essentially, of the categories listed by the OP, Category B is a mothballed ship that I refit occasionally with new fire control systems or to remove (O) status, Category C is a mothballed ship that I won't bother refitting unless I'm about to reactivate it, and Category D is a mothballed ship that I'm only keeping around because for some reason I'm not quite comfortable getting rid of it yet.
i would like to see Mothballed ships with a low chance of get 1 or 2 mounth in docks when they come back to AF or RF, if its also obsolete i could have a bugger chance of need some months in the docks. Mothballed ships didnt recive radar in game? i dont remember
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