Torpedo targeting inquiry.

[nimrod]

When did you start the game(s) - 1900
What nation were you playing? - Germany and Italy
Were there any start options that were not the default? - Very large fleet, historical resources. Most recent game is using evil4zerggin HP mod.

Describe the issue in detail. - DD and CL have a habit of not showing enemy ships in the torpedo targeting box. This occurs routinely with two categories:

1. DD's coming along side capital will often lose the ability to select enemy ships for torpedoes for a few turns or for the rest of the battle.

2. DD's and CL's lose the ability to target ships to their front, but will usually retain the ability to target ships outside of the frontal arc.

See figure immediately below for an example of the blank torp targeting box. While this screen shot isn't optimun in showing the issue, as only one enemy ship is within range - it does show that DD S33 has lost its ability to select an enemy ship that another DD S20 in its division with no torps can select in the torp targeting box:

Some times setting a ship to AI control will result in the ship launching torpedoes, at which time if I resume manual control of the ship the  the torpedo targeting box will be populated with enemy ships. 

The blank targeting box will occur through the 1950s with ships as close as 100 yards away and with my DD or CL in optimum firing position. It will also occur when their are numerous (8+) enemy ships within range.

What were you doing when the bug occurred? - Fighting various battles.

What did you expect to happen and how was the result you saw different than you expected. - I expect friendly ships to not have blank torpedo targeting boxes when they are within range of numerous enemy ships - some of which may be as close as 100 yards away and in optimun firing position.

For example see below screen shot of what I expect to see in a worst case scenario. DD S20 is in the same division as DD S33 and same relative position - so I expect their targeting boxes to show the enemy CA:

Can you describe how to reproduce the bug? - seems to be tied into in-operable guns and or conning tower hits. As a DD loses its ability to fire main guns at a target, their is a greatly increased chance of the blank targeting screen showing up. If the guns are repaired, their is a strong likelihood that the torpedo targeting box will be re-populated with enemy ships.

I have had conning tower hits which seem to randomly produce the blank torpedo targeting screen.

Easy to try example - playing as Italy 1900 start, I had legacy destroyers with two torp tubes and 1 3" gun on the rear. The DD's were not effective due to a high probability of blank torpedo targeting boxes, even when they were pulled alongside dead in the water enemy ships.

What version of the game were you playing (v1.00, v1.01, etc)? -  v1.22 and v1.23

I am wondering if any work-arounds have been found for the blank torpedo targeting boxes, such as saving and reloading the mission.

[janxol]

What do you mean by inability to launch torpedoes? Is it a lack of solution? Is it a lack of torpedo? If it's a solution its most likely a fault of positioning, especially against fast-moving targets.

[nimrod]

Thank you Janxol - sorry for the confusion.

I'm asking about ships that have torpedoes in the tubes and when I bring up the torpedo targeting box nothing shows in the big white box. Other ships in the division will show a selection of multiple ships in the targeting box that they have no firing arch on even if they have no ready torpedoes.

To go into more detail - their are two instances of torp targeting issues going on. The first is the one that has me scratching my head the most.

1. When I open the torpedo firing box for a specific ship, no ships display in the box. It may in a turn or 15 be able to select ships again, other times the ship will never display ships in the torpedo targeting box.

2. Sometimes a friendly ship won't display in the torpedo targeting box a ship right in front of it or sometimes to its immediate sides. Typically about once a battle a CL with front torpedo tube won't display a CL / CA / BC / BB / B in its frontal arch at less than a 1000 yards. The CL will display targetable ships to its side or further in front. The un-targetable ship is usually targetable by other ships in the division - although they will have no firing arch on it. As soon as the enemy ship gets out of the frontal arch, it will show the CL torpedo targeting box.

My thought process was that a ship had to be targetable by a gun on the ship to display in the torpedo targeting box. But I've seen an instance where that wasn't the case, as a DD with 0% ammo was able to select and then launch torpedoes on a French CA that would not display in the torpedo targeting box for about 15 turns.

I had an interesting game in with Italian Destroyers had rear guns with limited ammo and no forward or side guns. I had a very rough time getting enemy ships to display in the torpedo targeting box; which lead me to think torpedo targeting was subservient to gun targeting.

[janxol]

In my experience if a ship doesnt show up in the target selection box it means it is out of torpedo range. Bear in mind that you're shooting the torpedo at a place where the ship will be, not at the place it is right now. As such even ships that appear to be within the blue circle will not be viable targets. That is usually the case when you're targeting fast ships with slow torpedoes. In other cases you will receive "out of arc" message when the target is within range, but the position that it will be in is beyond what the launcher can target.

[nimrod]

Oct 19, 2020 13:39:24 GMT -6 janxol said:

In my experience if a ship doesnt show up in the target selection box it means it is out of torpedo range. Bear in mind that you're shooting the torpedo at a place where the ship will be, not at the place it is right now. As such even ships that appear to be within the blue circle will not be viable targets. That is usually the case when you're targeting fast ships with slow torpedoes. In other cases you will receive "out of arc" message when the target is within range, but the position that it will be in is beyond what the launcher can target.

Understood, but enemy ships are not showing up the targeting box through the 1950s and sub 1000 yards. I'm not even able to get "out of arc" selections as the ships aren't even displaying in the targeting box.

Does the add attachment allow direct uploads to the site? If so, I should be able to get some screen shots uploaded this or tomorrow evening.

[aeson]

Oct 19, 2020 14:00:08 GMT -6 nimrod said:

Does the add attachment allow direct uploads to the site? If so, I should be able to get some screen shots uploaded this or tomorrow evening.

Yes, as long as the file size is not more than 1 MB.

[nimrod]

Oct 19, 2020 14:15:24 GMT -6 aeson said:

Oct 19, 2020 14:00:08 GMT -6 nimrod said:

Does the add attachment allow direct uploads to the site? If so, I should be able to get some screen shots uploaded this or tomorrow evening.

Yes, as long as the file size is not more than 1 MB.

Thank you.

If this is a proper bug, I can certainly revise my first post with the requested details. I was thinking this was a known issue that didn't have much traction in the forums.

Example of number 2 but with a DD instead of CL. Most ships will list anything that are reasonably within torp range, screen shot 1.

In screen shot 2, I have a DD coming in for a strike on BC which is about 950-1000 yards out and the BC is no longer listed. Usually the BC will be re-listed in a turn or three, but when this happens on a fast run it can be disconcerting to lose the shot opportunity. The CA that is listed at 8700 yards is at the very limit of my torp range and should be outside of it this next turn - especially if my DD start to make its turn.   

 

[nimrod]

Here is an example of my primary question and first example, although it is at range and I usually see it closer in to the enemy ships.

For a couple of turns DD S33 hasn't had the option to select a CA well within torp and gun range, it has 2 torps but the front gun is down and the enemy ship is in its frontal arc. I've had this happen while pulling alongside BB, BC, CA, B, etc. etc. and I fail to get any torps off. Additionally, if the 2nd main gun goes down I generally lose the ability to select any ships for torps.

DD S20 is without torps, but is able to select the CA for torp targeting.

Thank you for the assistance in understanding what is going on here. I appreciate it.

      

[wlbjork]

Can tubes mounted at B usually fire over the bows? Seems a bit too far back IMO, which may explain why S-33 cannot target in the second examples whilst S-20 can.

In the first example with G38, it's possible that line of sight is blocked due to S-34 being ablaze and sinking plus that's a rather awkward angle to the BC.

[dorn]

In the first and the third case, your targets are ahead of you, usually impossible solutions as speed of target increase time torpedo needs to travel.
In the second example only bearing is visible but to have torpedo solution you need to have distance, course and heading of target
In the fourth example you have expended all torpedoes.

[nimrod]

Guys, thank you for the comments but I don't see that they address why a lot of my DD and CL aren't able to show any ships or ships near to them in the torpedo targeting box.

I was giving screen shots of the problem - the blank targeting box - with a screen shot of what I expected to see. In no screen shots was I expecting to have a complete firing chain - select an enemy ship -> see if any tubes have firing solutions -> select a tube to launch and fire.

Point with the last screen shot #4 was to show that a DD with no torps can select an enemy CA, but a DD in the same division with 2 torps as shown in screen capture 3 can't select the same CA at roughly the same range. DD in screen shot #3 after closing with the enemy CA and coming alongside of it, did not regain the ability to select the enemy CA.

I've edited the first post to try and get the issue in the standard format which I hope will clarify my issue and cover my communication difficulties.

Thanks.

[hawkeye]

Just to throw this in as confirmation, as I have seen this a _ton_ of times too (and it's driving me up the wall).

I can target (with no solution or out of arc messages) ships 5 or even 10k yards away, but sometimes, when I get a DD into point-blank range with a dozen or more ships within visual range the window with possible targets to torpedo is simply empty.

That Russian battleship is right there, if you put your arm over the side you would friggin _touch_ it but you can't see it?
Seriously?

To make this absolutely clear:
This is NOT about a target ship being out of arc or out of range or something, this is about the window where the possible targets are listed being EMPTY when there are up to a dozen or more ships within visual range of the DD in question.

Edit: Added a screenshot showing the issue

[williammiller]

hawkeye I'll post this as an issue for the Beta team to examine/test, thanks.

[nimrod]

Thank you Hawkeye and Williammiller!

Glad I'm not the only one having this issue.

[maddog]

I'm a Newbie here just joined the forum today but been playing RTW,RTW2 for three months strait (The Wife claims I'm Addicted to RTW2)
I can Roger that on this "No Targets in Torp's fire box" subject and I'm Glad to know it is being looked at. I Do not know if this helps anyone but my "Work-Around" for this "Bug/Issue" is to get the Targeted enemy ship to Fire at my CL/DD when I start my attack run because for what ever reason after said enemy ship fires on my CL/DD they can then Target said enemy ship.? Yes Your CL/DD could acquire damaged but it works.
Also I do not know if this is the place for A "Respectfully Request" but in regards to this subject sometimes the Torpedo Targeting Box (TTB) can have Way to many targets. In a large battle say 20+ enemy ships the TTB can be crammed full of say 15 Target selections but only one or two are truly valid Torp targets and by the time you scroll through trying to find the True Targets your Torp Firing window has passed and you have to make another attack run. Please If at all possible Respectfully Request that Torpedo Targeting Box TTB Only display valid targets that are in true Torpedo range and Targets closest to the firing Ship appear first at the top of list then as Range/Distance increases targets go down the list. Thank You for all of your hard work and this excellent game!