PLEASE an update for SAI to RTW2 standards

[zoomar]

Although I enjoy both RTW titles and love the grand strategy/alternate history aspect, I would like to be able to sit down and fight a "historical" scenario in the 1920-1950 period with the actual ships from the actual nations. SAI was outstanding, and a mod was available to extend the game into the 1920's with all the capital ships that were cancelled by the Washington Treaty. How difficult would it be to release a 'SAI2" that updates the tactical game to extend the game to the end of WW2 incorporating all of the improvements in the RTW tactical mode? If his has been asked before, I apologize.

[phoenix]

+1

[skryabin]

At least a patch with torpedo range would be helpful. As minimum   

[gregb7111]

+2

[nikdav]

+3

[Jack]

+4 and a release on Steam. SAI still has one of the best naval campaign modes ever made.

[TheOtherPoster]

Well, I think we all know they are very busy until the end of the year, and probably later, on RTW3 and its release on Steam. But hope these constant reminders will convince the developers to go for an update of SAI afterwards. A new SAI2 to 1950s and aviation I'm sure would make us very happy.
SAI is an amazing game and being able to play WWII campaigns would be really great.

[madmiral]

A Second World War version of SAI with realistic battle would be very popular and sell well, in my opinion. RTW3 will be excellent for sure and an instant purchase for me (my money comes your way unconditionally), but it will appeal to a much narrower audience. You have already done the hard work with RTW2, and you have an excellent engine to simulate WWII naval ops. JTS has just released Kriegsmarine, which I have enjoyed playing, but games on this subject have been rare while there is much general interest in the subject and there is much room for new products. Your efforts would likely provide the best single attempt to model WWII naval warfare since the great "Action Stations" from the early 1990s - and better yet, it will have submarines and aircraft for a better modelling of three-dimensional threat of WWII naval ops. I love the role-playing aspect of RTW, but please don't let it constrain you! Many short tactical WWII scenarios a la SAI would be very popular - both due to the trademark historical accuracy you provide and the ability to complete games quickly. I like JTS Kriegsmarine, Wolfpack and Guadalcanal because I can play a quick game after a 12-hour day at work - can't really do that with RTW - much as I love it. I think there is amazing untapped potential here.

[TheOtherPoster]

I wonder if NWS decides to enter the just announced partnership, would that mean more chances of quickly updating SAI and other games like SAS.

SAI could get carrier operations and probably missiles in new scenarios and campaigns from WWII and later.

SAS would need an even more comprensive update, maybe not need to change the WWII era yet but it would be great to include an option to fight naval battles, like in RTW/SAI.

Sorry, William, again the same "old song" about updating the games. We'll never give up, we'll never surrender!

[williammiller]

I can't (nor would I ever try to) predict the future, but a revamp/reboot of SAI is not unimaginable at some future time I think.

Also, as to SAS...something is already well into the planning stages concerning it...details at a later time when things are more solid :-)

[antonin]

Jun 10, 2022 0:09:14 GMT -6 madmiral said:

A Second World War version of SAI with realistic battle would be very popular and sell well, in my opinion... 

As a life-long U-boat nerd I have always hoped for a WWII U-boat campaign done SAI style. But the audience for that would probably be limited. 

I have also been wishing for a general WWII version of SAI. I'm not particularly interested in the big carrier battles, but I would like to re-fight the nighttime surface actions off Guadalcanal. And of course it would be interesting to create hypothetical non-carrier battles.

[vonfriedman]

After returning to play some SAI campaigns, I once again appreciated the strong points, that for me consist in the phases of searching for the enemy and making contact with it and also in the management of resources, here expressed by the OPs available at each turn.
However, if NWS sooner or later makes that SAI2 that is expected by a not entirely negligible minority of potential customers, as far as campaigns are concerned the problem arises of improving AI in at least two aspects.
One is to make the enemy fleet's behavior more realistic, because too often the enemy does foolish things, such as stopping fleeing in the face of a stronger but slower opponent, and most importantly, losing the order of the initial deployment and starting disordered maneuvers, which transform its battle line into a tangle of groups of ships that seem to be turning desperately on themselves.
The second point concerns the rigidity of the objectives that the AI ​​pursues, without adapting them to the changed conditions of relative strengths, as usually occurs in the later stages of the game. This makes the final stages rather boring, with very unbalanced battles in favor of the player.

[zederfflinger]

Oct 23, 2022 5:20:29 GMT -6 vonfriedman said:

After returning to play some SAI campaigns, I once again appreciated the strong points, that for me consist in the phases of searching for the enemy and making contact with it and also in the management of resources, here expressed by the OPs available at each turn.
However, if NWS sooner or later makes that SAI2 that is expected by a not entirely negligible minority of potential customers, as far as campaigns are concerned the problem arises of improving AI in at least two aspects.
One is to make the enemy fleet's behavior more realistic, because too often the enemy does foolish things, such as stopping fleeing in the face of a stronger but slower opponent, and most importantly, losing the order of the initial deployment and starting disordered maneuvers, which transform its battle line into a tangle of groups of ships that seem to be turning desperately on themselves.
The second point concerns the rigidity of the objectives that the AI ​​pursues, without adapting them to the changed conditions of relative strengths, as usually occurs in the later stages of the game. This makes the final stages rather boring, with very unbalanced battles in favor of the player.

I've never played SAI, but if a new game came out, I'd almost certainly give it a go. As someone who has played the game, do you think that it would lend itself to multiplayer?

[vonfriedman]

Oct 24, 2022 6:40:35 GMT -6 zederfflinger said:

Oct 23, 2022 5:20:29 GMT -6 vonfriedman said:

After returning to play some SAI campaigns, I once again appreciated the strong points, that for me consist in the phases of searching for the enemy and making contact with it and also in the management of resources, here expressed by the OPs available at each turn.
However, if NWS sooner or later makes that SAI2 that is expected by a not entirely negligible minority of potential customers, as far as campaigns are concerned the problem arises of improving AI in at least two aspects.
One is to make the enemy fleet's behavior more realistic, because too often the enemy does foolish things, such as stopping fleeing in the face of a stronger but slower opponent, and most importantly, losing the order of the initial deployment and starting disordered maneuvers, which transform its battle line into a tangle of groups of ships that seem to be turning desperately on themselves.
The second point concerns the rigidity of the objectives that the AI ​​pursues, without adapting them to the changed conditions of relative strengths, as usually occurs in the later stages of the game. This makes the final stages rather boring, with very unbalanced battles in favor of the player.

I've never played SAI, but if a new game came out, I'd almost certainly give it a go. As someone who has played the game, do you think that it would lend itself to multiplayer?

Since the naval operations that are repeated after 1, 2 or 4 weeks, and which in some cases are resolved in battles, take place in real time, as in RTW, the multiplayer version would require a very fast connection. But I am not an expert on these things and in all honesty I am not sure of the answer.

I advise you to try anyway with SAI and (interested advice!) to try also my "Mediterranean campaigns" (both 1914 and 1940).

[vonfriedman]

When, overcoming some difficulties, you start designing a new SAI campaign, you have to define a set of objectives, to which the ship courses are connected. By imitating the North Sea campaign, you will likely establish a number of operations that require a certain (limited) number of BBs or BCs to reach a certain point on the map.

At the beginning of the campaign, with more or less equal forces, everything is fine.
To tell the truth, taking advantage of the halving of the cost in terms of OPs that is granted when using the "emergency activation" (a rule of which the logic is not obvious), the human player can easily deploy a superior force and win his battles.
As the campaign goes on, therefore, the enemy becomes weaker and weaker. However, he continues to try to achieve his objectives, deploying forces that are sometimes ridiculous (half a dozen DDs to bomb the coast) and sometimes pathetically dispersed. In a recent North Sea game I was able to face separately in the same round, with the bulk of my Grand Fleet, 1 BC, 2 BCs, 4 BBs respectively, sinking them all without losses.

I have always been a supporter of the development of an SAI2 based on the game mechanics of RTW2 or better RTW3.
In order for this to be a real success, it will also be necessary to review the logic with which the AI ​​carries out "its" campaign.