The KG V class battleships

[oldpop2000]

This thread is about real history, with no references to the game. It's about the KG V class battleship, specifically the KG V, Prince of Wales, Anson and Howe. They were unique in the Royal Navy, in that they had two quad turrets, one forward and one aft, with one dual gun turret forward in superposition. The guns were 14 inch, not the larger 15 inch or 16 inch of the earlier battleships.


Historically, the only other quad turret ships were the Dunkerque class, namely Dunkerque and Strasbourg. They were equipped with two quad turrets up forward, 13 inch guns. Both were at Mers El Kebir and were disabled then moved to Toulon and scuttled there. Strasbourg was moved to Toulon and had the same fate. To my knowledge, there ships never fired their weapons at anything.


I will provide some links that have more details on the ship design but I am going to use Springsharp to design the KGV as built and then modify those designs to represent the British alternatives that were never implemented.


Here are two links:


www.ww2ships.com/britain/gb-cs-001-b.shtml



navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_14-45_mk7.php - Detailed specifications on the 14-inch Mark VII guns of the KG V class


My other sources are:


The British Battleships 1906-1946 by Norman Friedman


Nelson to Vanguard by David K. Brown


I have others in print and on E-book.




Here is my Springsharp design for KG V - The actual KG-V's weighed in at 42,23 tons with a full load. As one can see, my design is reasonable close. I am going to check some of the armor to get the weight more exact.



KG V design, England Battleship laid down 1935



Displacement:

37,128 t light; 39,444 t standard; 41,493 t normal; 43,132 t full load



Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)

(782.38 ft / 777.00 ft) x 112.00 ft x (28.00 / 28.87 ft)

(238.47 m / 236.83 m) x 34.14 m x (8.53 / 8.80 m)



Armament:

12 - 14.00" / 356 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,383.70lbs / 627.64kg shells, 150 per gun

Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model

2 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread

1 x Twin mount on centreline ends, evenly spread

16 - 5.25" / 133 mm 45.0 cal guns - 72.97lbs / 33.10kg shells, 150 per gun

Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model

8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread

32 - 1.57" / 39.9 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 150 per gun

Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model

2 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread

2 x Quad mounts on sides amidships

Weight of broadside 17,834 lbs / 8,090 kg

4 - 11.8" / 299 mm, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m torpedoes - 0.000 t each, 0.000 t total

In 8 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes



Armour:

- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)

Main: 14.7" / 373 mm 505.05 ft / 153.94 m 12.24 ft / 3.73 m

Ends: Unarmoured

Upper: 5.40" / 137 mm 505.05 ft / 153.94 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m

Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length



- Torpedo Bulkhead:

1.50" / 38 mm 505.05 ft / 153.94 m 26.76 ft / 8.16 m



- Hull Bulges:

1.34" / 34 mm 500.00 ft / 152.40 m 5.00 ft / 1.52 m



- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 12.8" / 324 mm - 12.8" / 324 mm

2nd: 12.8" / 324 mm - 11.8" / 299 mm



- Box over machinery & magazines: 4.88" / 124 mm

Forecastle: 4.88" / 124 mm Quarter deck: 4.88" / 124 mm



- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm



Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,

Geared drive, 4 shafts, 103,564 shp / 77,259 Kw = 28.00 kts

Range 15,000nm at 10.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 3,688 tons



Complement:

1,453 - 1,889



Cost:

£17.180 million / $68.721 million



Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 3,191 tons, 7.7 %

Armour: 13,275 tons, 32.0 %

- Belts: 4,887 tons, 11.8 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 750 tons, 1.8 %

- Bulges: 124 tons, 0.3 %

- Armament: 4,611 tons, 11.1 %

- Armour Deck: 2,826 tons, 6.8 %

- Conning Tower: 77 tons, 0.2 %

Machinery: 2,942 tons, 7.1 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,720 tons, 42.7 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,365 tons, 10.5 %

Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %



Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

84,768 lbs / 38,450 Kg = 61.8 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 13.1 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09

Metacentric height 7.0 ft / 2.1 m

Roll period: 17.8 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 93 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.91

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.55



Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck,

a normal bow and large transom stern

Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.596 / 0.601

Length to Beam Ratio: 6.94 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 32.43 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m

Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):

Fore end, Aft end

- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 30.52 ft / 9.30 m, 30.52 ft / 9.30 m

- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 30.52 ft / 9.30 m, 30.52 ft / 9.30 m

- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 30.52 ft / 9.30 m, 30.52 ft / 9.30 m

- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 30.52 ft / 9.30 m, 30.52 ft / 9.30 m

- Average freeboard: 30.52 ft / 9.30 m

Ship tends to be wet forward



Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.3 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 264.4 %

Waterplane Area: 66,082 Square feet or 6,139 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 210 lbs/sq ft or 1,023 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.94

- Longitudinal: 1.78

- Overall: 1.00

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent

Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[oldpop2000]

Ok, after continued research here is my final attempt at duplicating the KG V battleships. From here, I am going to try to design alternatives that were considered in many designs to see how the change in turrets might have changed the speed and tonnage. The actual change to quad turrets 

KG V design, England Battleship laid down 1935



Displacement:

37,369 t light; 39,681 t standard; 41,291 t normal; 42,580 t full load



Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)

(747.63 ft / 745.00 ft) x 103.00 ft x (31.60 / 32.37 ft)

(227.88 m / 227.08 m) x 31.39 m x (9.63 / 9.87 m)



Armament:

12 - 14.00" / 356 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,383.71lbs / 627.64kg shells, 150 per gun

Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model

2 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread

1 x Twin mount on centreline forward

1 raised mount

16 - 5.25" / 133 mm 45.0 cal guns - 72.97lbs / 33.10kg shells, 150 per gun

Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model

8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread

32 - 1.57" / 39.9 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.94lbs / 0.88kg shells, 150 per gun

Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model

2 x Quad mounts on sides amidships

2 x Quad mounts on sides amidships

Weight of broadside 17,834 lbs / 8,089 kg

Main Torpedoes

2 - 11.8" / 299 mm, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m torpedoes - 0.000 t each, 0.000 t total

In 8 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes



Armour:

- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)

Main: 14.7" / 373 mm 372.50 ft / 113.54 m 12.18 ft / 3.71 m

Ends: 6.00" / 152 mm 372.48 ft / 113.53 m 12.18 ft / 3.71 m

Upper: 5.40" / 137 mm 372.50 ft / 113.54 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m

Main Belt covers 77 % of normal length

Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces



- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:

1.50" / 38 mm 372.50 ft / 113.54 m 29.64 ft / 9.03 m

Beam between torpedo bulkheads 80.00 ft / 24.38 m



- Hull void:

1.34" / 34 mm 500.00 ft / 152.40 m 5.00 ft / 1.52 m



- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 12.8" / 324 mm - 12.8" / 324 mm

2nd: 12.8" / 324 mm - 11.8" / 299 mm



- Box over machinery & magazines:

6.00" / 152 mm

Forecastle: 6.00" / 152 mm Quarter deck: 6.00" / 152 mm



- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm



Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,

Geared drive, 4 shafts, 125,499 shp / 93,622 Kw = 29.50 kts

Range 11,770nm at 10.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 2,898 tons



Complement:

1,447 - 1,882



Cost:

£17.667 million / $70.670 million



Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 3,191 tons, 7.7 %

- Guns: 3,191 tons, 7.7 %

Armour: 14,829 tons, 35.9 %

- Belts: 4,787 tons, 11.6 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 613 tons, 1.5 %

- Void: 124 tons, 0.3 %

- Armament: 4,867 tons, 11.8 %

- Armour Deck: 4,284 tons, 10.4 %

- Conning Towers: 154 tons, 0.4 %

Machinery: 3,565 tons, 8.6 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,784 tons, 38.2 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,922 tons, 9.5 %

Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %



Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

71,180 lbs / 32,287 Kg = 51.9 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 9.6 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08

Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m

Roll period: 17.6 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.93

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.29



Hull form characteristics:

Hull has low forecastle,

a normal bow and large transom stern

Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.596 / 0.600

Length to Beam Ratio: 7.23 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 31.64 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m

Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):

Fore end, Aft end

- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 30.02 ft / 9.15 m, 30.02 ft / 9.15 m

- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 30.02 ft / 9.15 m, 30.02 ft / 9.15 m

- Aft deck: 20.00 %, 30.02 ft / 9.15 m, 30.02 ft / 9.15 m

- Quarter deck: 30.00 %, 30.02 ft / 9.15 m, 30.02 ft / 9.15 m

- Average freeboard: 30.02 ft / 9.15 m



Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.2 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 230.3 %

Waterplane Area: 58,269 Square feet or 5,413 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 209 lbs/sq ft or 1,020 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.93

- Longitudinal: 1.80

- Overall: 1.00

Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space

Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily






Now, in other posts, I going to work through two different turrets, dual and triple, along with 14-inch, 15-inch and 16-inch designs. I want to examine the changes in displacement by making these changes. Hope springs eternal.

[oldpop2000]

Ok, I now changed the design to four triple turrets, with 14-inch guns. The result was the original displacement was 42580 tons under a full load. The second design resulted in a weight increase to 43781 tons fully loaded. The difference was 1201 tons. That is exactly what the British had calculated by moving to quad turrets. It works.... I think. I now going to use three gun turrets and move to 15-guns.

I have redesigned the triple turret version of ship, and now replaced the 14-inch guns with proposed 15-inch guns and the weight went up. The ship now weighs at full load 46890 tons. So from the quad version, to the latest was 4310 tons. BTW engine power did increase after each change. On the latest version it is 136,986 HP. I also noticed that it is now a poor seaboat and seaboat quality is now below average at .79. This is not good and would have to be modified with increased length and freeboard to compensate. 

[oldpop2000]

My conclusions, based on the small amount of evidence and the fact that I am not a Naval Architect are that if the Interwar late 1930's armament treaties had gone down the tubes, which they did and the British people and government were willing to provide more money to the Navy, which I don't believe they would have, the DNC would have gone towards the four triple turrets with 14 inch. guns. This would have meant an increase in weight but one that was probably tolerable cost wise.

[oldpop2000]

Since two KG V class battleships fought the Bismarck, why not design a Bismarck then change it to quad turrets. So I am.

[oldpop2000]

Ok, after a day of work, here is Bismarck's specifications. These are her original specs at her sinking, I hope. I matched her full load to one ton. So I am happy

Bismarck, Germany Battleship laid down 1936

Displacement:
39,320 t light; 41,332 t standard; 45,870 t normal; 49,501 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(820.12 ft / 803.17 ft) x 118.11 ft x (33.60 / 35.53 ft)
(249.97 m / 244.81 m) x 36.00 m x (10.24 / 10.83 m)

Armament:
8 - 14.96" / 380 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,763.70lbs / 800.00kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
12 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1928 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, majority aft
16 - 4.13" / 105 mm 45.0 cal guns - 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1933 Model
8 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.54lbs / 0.70kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.29lbs / 0.13kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 15,950 lbs / 7,235 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.6" / 320 mm 401.59 ft / 122.40 m 13.04 ft / 3.97 m
Ends: 5.90" / 150 mm 401.57 ft / 122.40 m 13.04 ft / 3.97 m
Upper: 5.70" / 145 mm 401.59 ft / 122.40 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 77 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1.77" / 45 mm 401.59 ft / 122.40 m 29.68 ft / 9.05 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 98.43 ft / 30.00 m

- Hull void:
0.00" / 0 mm 0.00 ft / 0.00 m 0.00 ft / 0.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.2" / 360 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 13.4" / 340 mm
2nd: 14.2" / 361 mm 8.70" / 221 mm 13.4" / 340 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.79" / 20 mm

- Box over machinery & magazines:
3.20" / 81 mm
Forecastle: 3.20" / 81 mm Quarter deck: 3.20" / 81 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 134,224 shp / 100,131 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,525nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8,169 tons

Complement:
1,566 - 2,037

Cost:
£17.599 million / $70.397 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,981 tons, 6.5 %
- Guns: 2,981 tons, 6.5 %
Armour: 13,733 tons, 29.9 %
- Belts: 5,003 tons, 10.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 781 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 4,649 tons, 10.1 %
- Armour Deck: 2,538 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Towers: 761 tons, 1.7 %
Machinery: 3,766 tons, 8.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,754 tons, 40.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,550 tons, 14.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 86 tons, 0.2 %
- Hull below water: 83 tons
- Hull void weights: 3 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
87,423 lbs / 39,655 Kg = 52.2 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 14.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 7.8 ft / 2.4 m
Roll period: 17.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.504 / 0.514
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 33.41 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.68 ft / 2.95 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 31.49 ft / 9.60 m, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m
- Forward deck: 25.00 %, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m
- Quarter deck: 25.00 %, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m
- Average freeboard: 25.95 ft / 7.91 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 203.0 %
Waterplane Area: 65,955 Square feet or 6,127 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 232 lbs/sq ft or 1,131 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.04
- Longitudinal: 1.61
- Overall: 1.09
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


Fully loaded 49,500Bismarck, Germany Battleship laid down 1936

Displacement:
39,320 t light; 41,332 t standard; 45,870 t normal; 49,501 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(820.12 ft / 803.17 ft) x 118.11 ft x (33.60 / 35.53 ft)
(249.97 m / 244.81 m) x 36.00 m x (10.24 / 10.83 m)

Armament:
8 - 14.96" / 380 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,763.70lbs / 800.00kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
12 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1928 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, majority aft
16 - 4.13" / 105 mm 45.0 cal guns - 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1933 Model
8 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.54lbs / 0.70kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.29lbs / 0.13kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 15,950 lbs / 7,235 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.6" / 320 mm 401.59 ft / 122.40 m 13.04 ft / 3.97 m
Ends: 5.90" / 150 mm 401.57 ft / 122.40 m 13.04 ft / 3.97 m
Upper: 5.70" / 145 mm 401.59 ft / 122.40 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 77 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1.77" / 45 mm 401.59 ft / 122.40 m 29.68 ft / 9.05 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 98.43 ft / 30.00 m

- Hull void:
0.00" / 0 mm 0.00 ft / 0.00 m 0.00 ft / 0.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.2" / 360 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 13.4" / 340 mm
2nd: 14.2" / 361 mm 8.70" / 221 mm 13.4" / 340 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.79" / 20 mm

- Box over machinery & magazines:
3.20" / 81 mm
Forecastle: 3.20" / 81 mm Quarter deck: 3.20" / 81 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 134,224 shp / 100,131 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,525nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8,169 tons

Complement:
1,566 - 2,037

Cost:
£17.599 million / $70.397 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,981 tons, 6.5 %
- Guns: 2,981 tons, 6.5 %
Armour: 13,733 tons, 29.9 %
- Belts: 5,003 tons, 10.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 781 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 4,649 tons, 10.1 %
- Armour Deck: 2,538 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Towers: 761 tons, 1.7 %
Machinery: 3,766 tons, 8.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,754 tons, 40.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,550 tons, 14.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 86 tons, 0.2 %
- Hull below water: 83 tons
- Hull void weights: 3 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
87,423 lbs / 39,655 Kg = 52.2 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 14.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 7.8 ft / 2.4 m
Roll period: 17.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.504 / 0.514
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 33.41 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.68 ft / 2.95 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 31.49 ft / 9.60 m, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m
- Forward deck: 25.00 %, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m
- Quarter deck: 25.00 %, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m
- Average freeboard: 25.95 ft / 7.91 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 203.0 %
Waterplane Area: 65,955 Square feet or 6,127 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 232 lbs/sq ft or 1,131 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.04
- Longitudinal: 1.61
- Overall: 1.09
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


I will now replace her twin turrets with quads, no superposition.

[oldpop2000]

Ok, I substituted two quad turrets on the main deck, no superposition for the four 3 gun turrets. The weight change was 3912 tons. This is about as accurate as I can make with my knowledge and sources. It does prove... well maybe not... that substituting a quad turret can save weight.

Bismarck, Germany Battleship laid down 1936

Displacement:
35,947 t light; 37,884 t standard; 42,165 t normal; 45,589 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(820.12 ft / 803.17 ft) x 118.11 ft x (33.60 / 35.49 ft)
(249.97 m / 244.81 m) x 36.00 m x (10.24 / 10.82 m)

Armament:
8 - 14.96" / 380 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,763.70lbs / 800.00kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
2 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1928 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, majority aft
16 - 4.13" / 105 mm 45.0 cal guns - 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1933 Model
8 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.54lbs / 0.70kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.29lbs / 0.13kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 15,950 lbs / 7,235 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.6" / 320 mm 401.59 ft / 122.40 m 13.04 ft / 3.97 m
Ends: 5.90" / 150 mm 401.57 ft / 122.40 m 13.04 ft / 3.97 m
Upper: 5.70" / 145 mm 401.59 ft / 122.40 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 77 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1.77" / 45 mm 401.59 ft / 122.40 m 29.68 ft / 9.05 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 98.43 ft / 30.00 m

- Hull void:
0.00" / 0 mm 0.00 ft / 0.00 m 0.00 ft / 0.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.2" / 360 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 13.4" / 340 mm
2nd: 14.2" / 361 mm 8.70" / 221 mm 13.4" / 340 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.79" / 20 mm

- Box over machinery & magazines:
3.20" / 81 mm
Forecastle: 3.20" / 81 mm Quarter deck: 3.20" / 81 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 125,078 shp / 93,308 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,525nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,704 tons

Complement:
1,470 - 1,912

Cost:
£16.787 million / $67.149 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,732 tons, 6.5 %
- Guns: 2,732 tons, 6.5 %
Armour: 12,382 tons, 29.4 %
- Belts: 4,993 tons, 11.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 781 tons, 1.9 %
- Armament: 3,352 tons, 7.9 %
- Armour Deck: 2,536 tons, 6.0 %
- Conning Towers: 719 tons, 1.7 %
Machinery: 3,509 tons, 8.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,238 tons, 40.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,217 tons, 14.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 86 tons, 0.2 %
- Hull below water: 83 tons
- Hull void weights: 3 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
81,445 lbs / 36,943 Kg = 48.6 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 13.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 9.0 ft / 2.7 m
Roll period: 16.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.36

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.463 / 0.474
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 33.61 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.68 ft / 2.95 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 31.49 ft / 9.60 m, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m
- Forward deck: 25.00 %, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m
- Quarter deck: 25.00 %, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m, 25.33 ft / 7.72 m
- Average freeboard: 25.95 ft / 7.91 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 208.4 %
Waterplane Area: 63,559 Square feet or 5,905 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 219 lbs/sq ft or 1,068 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.68
- Overall: 1.02
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[vonfriedman]

The fifth battleship of the KGV class was the Duke of York. Richelieu and Jean Bart also had quad turrets. I saw the former when she was being broken up in La Spezia. A sad sight.

Best wishes for the new year, hoping it is better than the one that is ending

[oldpop2000]

Dec 29, 2020 4:58:55 GMT -6 vonfriedman said:

The fifth battleship of the KGV class was the Duke of York. Richelieu and Jean Bart also had quad turrets. I saw the former when she was being broken up in La Spezia. A sad sight.

Best wishes for the new year, hoping it is better than the one that is ending

Yes, I bet it was a sad sight.

Best wishes to you and your family. I agree, let's hope we get our act together and move on to a better world. 

[talbot797]

Again, interesting. I read (I'll try to dig out my source if you're interested) that there was much debate around the gun choice for the KGV class. 14" was a new design, 16" and 15" (from memory) were a concern because of likely production issues (very rare we talk about these in a naval context, but surprisingly common), and the weight of broadside for 14" was judged to be adequate compared with 8x15" and even 9x16". What's more, the 14" projectile was judged to have extremely good penetrative performance for its calibre.

However, the newness of the 14" armament was an issue in the Battle of the Denmark Strait, where the civilian contractors were still onboard the Prince of Wales working on the main armament. I think from memory that PoW didn't manage to fire a single 10-gun broadside, or only one or two salvoes of it, before technical problems stopped some of the guns from firing.