Treaty Exempt Ship

[oldpop2000]

Historical interwar treaties had treaty-exempt category and I would suggest that one be added to the game. These would be the following:

A Coastal Combat ships that are too small to sail with the fleet - KE's would be the ships

B. Medium-size ships for defense of overseas territories or trade routes - light cruisers with colonial check box ticked

C. Auxiliary ships  that are based on mercantile ships - These would be AMC's.

Thanks


Article 8 of the London Treaty of 1930 covers this category: 

Article 8

Subject to any special agreements which may submit them to limitation, the

following vessels are exempt from limitation:

(a) naval surface combatant vessels of 600 tons (610 metric tons) standard displacement and under;

(b) naval surface combatant vessels exceeding 600 tons (610 metric tons) ,

but not exceeding 2,000 tons (2,032 metric tons) standard displacement,

provided they have none of the following characteristics:

(1) mount a gun above 6.1-inch (155 mm.) calibre;

(2) mount more than four guns above 3-inch (76 mm.) calibre;

(3) are designed or fitted to launch torpedoes;

(4) are designed for a speed greater than twenty knots.

(c) naval surface vessels not specifically built as fighting ships which are

employed on fleet duties or as troop transports or in some other way than as

fighting ships, provided they have none of the following characteristics:

( 1) mount a gun above 6.1-inch ( 155 mm.) calibre;

(2) mount more than four guns above 3-inch (76 mm.) calibre;

(3) are designed or fitted to launch torpedoes;

(4) are designed for a speed greater than twenty knots;

(5) are protected by armour plate;

(6) are designed or fitted to launch mines;

(7) are fitted to receive aircraft on board from the air;

(8) mount more than one aircraft-launching apparatus on the centre line;

or two, one on each broadside;

(9) if fitted with any means of launching aircraft into the air, are designed

or adapted to operate at sea more than three aircraft

[oldpop2000]

I just wanted to add another vessel type. This would be a coastal torpedo boat like the 610 ton French La Melpomeme class laid down in 1933-1935. We could use the destroyer configuration but limit to 600-800 tons, 34 to 36 knots, steam turbines or diesel with only 2 x 4 inch guns and two torpedo tubes. If the design has these characteristics, then it is designated as a coastal torpedo boat. They would be limited to coastal protection of ports and harbors and could not accompany the fleet. They would protect against blockade or invasion. I've built 600 ton destroyers to test this and it works, but I would like to change the name to coastal torpedo boat and limit it to coastal protection.

Thanks for reviewing this request

[talbot797]

What about disregarding the treaty? Germany did that with Bismarck, they just mis-stated the displacement. Theoretically you can design a ship that exceeds treaty limitations, you could start building it - but the further it proceeds towards completion, the more likely the treaty breach will be noticed - also influenced by intelligence parameters. Then all the associated increase in tension would occur.

[spacenerd4]

Feb 9, 2021 8:55:49 GMT -6 talbot797 said:

What about disregarding the treaty? Germany did that with Bismarck, they just mis-stated the displacement. Theoretically you can design a ship that exceeds treaty limitations, you could start building it - but the further it proceeds towards completion, the more likely the treaty breach will be noticed - also influenced by intelligence parameters. Then all the associated increase in tension would occur.

All countries besides the UK and USA can go 10% over treaty limits to simulate that.

[aeson]

Feb 9, 2021 10:32:02 GMT -6 spacenerd4 said:

All countries besides the UK and USA can go 10% over treaty limits to simulate that.

UK, USA, and France. Also, the rule is linked to government type - liberal democracies cannot exceed the limit, anything else can - rather than to the country.

[alias72]

Feb 9, 2021 10:32:02 GMT -6 spacenerd4 said:

Feb 9, 2021 8:55:49 GMT -6 talbot797 said:

What about disregarding the treaty? Germany did that with Bismarck, they just mis-stated the displacement. Theoretically you can design a ship that exceeds treaty limitations, you could start building it - but the further it proceeds towards completion, the more likely the treaty breach will be noticed - also influenced by intelligence parameters. Then all the associated increase in tension would occur.

All countries besides the UK and USA can go 10% over treaty limits to simulate that.

Because a democracy would never circumvent a lawfully signed naval limitation treaty by, hypothetically, "refitting" an aircraft carrier with torpedo and AA defenses while its under construction to take advantage of a part of the treaty intended for rebuilds; or perhaps filling the torpedo defense bulges with drinking water to take advantage of the definition of displacement used in the treaty ; or building a cruiser with magazine box protection to treaty displacement only to have a decent belt of armour that is perfectly sized for said cruiser siting in a warehouse nearby .

[babylon218]

Mar 2, 2021 17:47:45 GMT -6 alias72 said:

Feb 9, 2021 10:32:02 GMT -6 spacenerd4 said:

All countries besides the UK and USA can go 10% over treaty limits to simulate that.

Because a democracy would never circumvent a lawfully signed naval limitation treaty by, hypothetically, "refitting" an aircraft carrier with torpedo and AA defenses while its under construction to take advantage of a part of the treaty intended for rebuilds; or perhaps filling the torpedo defense bulges with drinking water to take advantage of the definition of displacement used in the treaty ; or building a cruiser with magazine box protection to treaty displacement only to have a decent belt of armour that is perfectly sized for said cruiser siting in a warehouse nearby .

I mean, the Treaty never said you couldn't do that.