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Post by christian on May 17, 2021 0:22:28 GMT -6
*vanilla pen curve flashbacks* Ah yes perfectly reasonable penetration curves nothing wack to see here (sarcasm)
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Post by charliezulu on May 17, 2021 10:54:13 GMT -6
*vanilla pen curve flashbacks* Ah yes perfectly reasonable penetration curves nothing wack to see here (sarcasm) Wait, that's the vanilla pen curve? Why are there those bumps?! Why are 17" guns the same as 16" guns at short ranges, and doesn't decrease with range at short range? Is it supposed to be some weird and over-emphasized representation of shattering or something?
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Post by christian on May 17, 2021 12:13:29 GMT -6
Ah yes perfectly reasonable penetration curves nothing wack to see here (sarcasm) Wait, that's the vanilla pen curve? Why are there those bumps?! Why are 17" guns the same as 16" guns at short ranges, and doesn't decrease with range at short range? Is it supposed to be some weird and over-emphasized representation of shattering or something? Yes its the vanilla pen curve bumps are due to values not being on a proper curve and rather just placed what seems to be manually. RTW just does not do well with sub 5k yard penetration curves No it does not represent shattering its just the sub 5k values being wrong in addition to that the penetration values are all kinds of wonky and dont follow realistic penetration dropoff curves Overpen mod exists to fix that Here is a picture of the overpen mods 18 inch penetration (black line) vs the in game 18 inch penetration (green line) Data for the 18 inch is ripped directly off the yamato (does not mean you will get yamato like penetration in game due to inherent modifiers of the vpen file numbers) Attachments:
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indy
Full Member
Posts: 118
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Post by indy on May 17, 2021 15:40:02 GMT -6
The name ‘Overpen’ makes me think the mod pens more than stock. Like ‘overly’ so, haha. Looking at the curve being so far in front of the stock curve also reinforces that idea, but the truth is, I have no real idea how the overpen mod works vs stock compares. But I’ll tell you what I’d like to overpen or a mod like it do... I’d like to see a fix for the stock penetration values that are closely in-line with stock values that also take into consideration the sub 5k range to correct slightly the values without ‘overly’ changing them.
So what’s real deal with overpen anyway?
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Post by christian on May 18, 2021 6:17:38 GMT -6
So what’s real deal with overpen anyway? Makes penetration historical to increase the difficulty it also raises rate of fire this makes the game more realistic and harder this is mostly because sloped deck ships effectively have 18 inches + of belt armor in 1920 and 20 inches of turret the AI basically has no chance vs this when they rarely even touch 16 inch guns until very late game Since armor is heavier than in real life in game it effectively means you can get close to as effective thickness armor (in inches) as in real life with the sloped deck scheme due to how efficient the sloped deck scheme is IN GAME for the given armor thickness and weight used. and this also means that the reduced penetration guns of RTW 2 need to get put back to historical values which is what the overpen mod does in addition to that it makes the base game harder (which i think is very much needed) in the case that you dont use the blatantly op sloped deck armor scheme keep in mind this mod still does not fix hit rate problems which are far lower than historically mistakes in RTW2 really do not get punished hard enough fast enough For example Kirishima was hit 21 times within 5 minutes by 16 inch fire at 8900 yards during nighttime pretty fair to say that will never happen in game if you can even detect them at night beyond 2k yards
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Post by seawolf on May 18, 2021 14:03:43 GMT -6
*vanilla pen curve flashbacks* This is just a plot of the data table no? Not the in game pen curve?
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Post by seawolf on May 18, 2021 14:30:48 GMT -6
*vanilla pen curve flashbacks* That isn't the actual pen curve.
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Post by christian on May 18, 2021 16:28:26 GMT -6
*vanilla pen curve flashbacks* That isn't the actual pen curve. View AttachmentWhats interesting is the values input (yamatos values) ended up being REALLY close to yamatos real penetration values but on the 20 inch gun (with max tech) (in the penetration table) so the guns are still underperforming but it seems to have made the curve realistic
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2021 19:23:14 GMT -6
That is correct, I've showed the table values, which have been adjusted for that quirk. Its slightly off but within the current range (1,000-30,000 yards) its a pretty insignificant difference. However, if you graph the penetration in inches it corresponds to existing shape. Thus. In this graph, green is from "Overpen" mod, blue is vanilla. The improvement is obvious. Because Vpen is for integer value, I had to round, so it isn't exactly even. The margin of error at 30km is like, an inch, and at 5,000 yards its a bit less.
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Post by christian on May 19, 2021 0:58:30 GMT -6
Blue is actual curve (in the files) green is in game curve red is curve for quality 0 guns instead of quality 1 It seems to me to be quite a significant diversion from the actual values In addition to that it diverges most at the shortest range but still diverges alot at the longest range at medium range its almost perfectly on and i have absolutely 0 idea on what causes lower quality guns to have less pen at short range but similar at long range Graphs were set up by The Big Bad /s#5670 on discord Attachments:
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sampa
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by sampa on May 19, 2021 21:29:57 GMT -6
Hey, something on my wishlist, is the ability to pick which engine type within a given fuel type during design. this would allow us to make more smart choices during ship design, particularly when building inside of treaty limits.
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indy
Full Member
Posts: 118
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Post by indy on May 20, 2021 0:17:55 GMT -6
I would like to have the option to convert ship(s) to Carriers when possible if a treaty scraps ships at a certain tonnage. I think treaty terms could use some attention. It’s so basic and bland... please spruce it up a little.
Thanks.
And on that note, if a ship gets converted to a carrier, allow us to change the conning tower armor values. Thanks!
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Post by christian on May 20, 2021 9:51:46 GMT -6
I would like to have the option to convert ship(s) to Carriers when possible if a treaty scraps ships at a certain tonnage. I think treaty terms could use some attention. It’s so basic and bland... please spruce it up a little. Thanks. And on that note, if a ship gets converted to a carrier, allow us to change the conning tower armor values. Thanks! Agree instead of scrapping several BBs you could get a chance to convert some
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jatzi
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Post by jatzi on May 20, 2021 16:02:49 GMT -6
I can't believe I've never thought of this before but what about letting us choose the size of torpedo we use? We can already choose oxygen torpedoes which increases damage. Is that it? Because oxygen torpedoes were also harder to detect and could go pretty far. Would be cool to replicate the Long Lance which I don't think can happen as of now. I'm sure there's more detail that could be added for torpedoes but yeah
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Post by christian on May 20, 2021 16:35:20 GMT -6
I can't believe I've never thought of this before but what about letting us choose the size of torpedo we use? We can already choose oxygen torpedoes which increases damage. Is that it? Because oxygen torpedoes were also harder to detect and could go pretty far. Would be cool to replicate the Long Lance which I don't think can happen as of now. I'm sure there's more detail that could be added for torpedoes but yeah Personally i do hope we can customize torpedoes a bit more for our needs although first i hope they improve (and make more realistic) the core systems of the game. That would mean extended ranges with higher hit rates and rate of fire so destroyers don't have as easy a time approaching ships so we can also have better torpedoes without them being broken OP. Currently oxygen torpedoes only increase torpedo range very slightly. Here is the 2 last torpedo techs you can unlock. Advanced preheater;1926;N;20;12;915;Torpedoes now have range@speed 5000@38/13000@27 Oxygen fuelled torpedoes;1930;N;20;12;916;Torpedoes now have range@speed 5000@38/18000@27 Currently oxygen torpedoes only seem to increase long range by about 5000 yards they don't add extra damage and they don't seem to be harder to detect. It is quite hard to detect these parameters so it is possible some of it is modelled i cant know for sure. (long lance should have range@speed 20000@50/40000@38 and a warhead of 490 kg (about 1.5 to 2.0 times as much explosive filler as usual torpedoes of the time.) increased explosive filler version would be range@speed 15000@50/30000@38 with a 790 kg warhead.)
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