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Post by rob06waves2018 on Oct 18, 2021 10:50:56 GMT -6
Now, now, I'm sure there were some important amino acid battles in that primordial soup that could need including... This comment almost made me spew coffee What can I say, I'm here all week!
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Post by flessar on Oct 20, 2021 10:53:19 GMT -6
Random thought from playing my 50's AH game. Could the airbases/coastal batteries be upgraded to include a SAM site as well or instead of their DP guns? Maybe limit it to a size of airfield/caliber?
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Post by navalperson on Oct 20, 2021 11:31:05 GMT -6
Not trying to add to the dark side but I have seen messages where my crews in the gun turrets have been cut down by splinters. So I thought for the commanding officers that are coming to the game is a casualty rate going to be added so they have a chance to be Kia?
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Post by gurudennis on Oct 20, 2021 18:02:36 GMT -6
Not trying to add to the dark side but I have seen messages where my crews in the gun turrets have been cut down by splinters. So I thought for the commanding officers that are coming to the game is a casualty rate going to be added so they have a chance to be Kia? The reason you see these messages for turrets by the way is because your turret armor (side or top or both) is less than 2", which is the thinnest armor that keeps the splinters from near misses away such that only a direct hit will do any real damage to the turret and its crew. On the subject of simulating commander death/injury, that would be great. Small ships had virtually no useful bridge protection. Capital ships of course had armored conning towers, but I remember reading that many captains preferred to stay on the navigation bridge even when in battle because of considerably better visibility. Then again, even conning towers didn't offer a guarantee of safety in practice, e.g. I think the entire bridge crew of the Bismarck was incapacitated within minutes of the opening shots and well before she (fine, he) was a total mission kill.
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Post by flamedraken on Oct 20, 2021 23:30:39 GMT -6
The captain being killed is in the beta from a screenshot I've seen posted on the forum. I don't remember if it was the conning tower being hit or bridge hit that showed the death however.
Edit: Found it, was a conning tower hit. It was in 'Stand-alone, unrelated, literal, Garrisonaars' thread in the AAR section.
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Post by aardvark on Oct 21, 2021 9:33:25 GMT -6
I think that there needs to be provisions for early guns. For instance, the 1889 Royal Sovereign class had 13.5" 30 caliber guns, but the 13.5" gun didn't show up again until the Orion class, but they were the vastly superior 45 caliber guns. IIRC, the French similarly went from larger guns to smaller but longer guns. And lets not even talk about the hideous 16.25" guns on the Victoria class.
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Post by TheOtherPoster on Oct 21, 2021 10:53:43 GMT -6
The main problem with those very big guns is their terrible ROF which really make them unfit for naval combat. You can't straddle and hit the enemy if you're firing your guns every 5 min in the best of cases and without range finder worth mentioning nor fire director. They were good just as shore bombardment -a favourite tactic at the time- or to finish off a damaged -no moving- enemy ship. I wonder if the developers will try to mimic that in the game. Things got better by the turn of the century, though. I really don't know but if all guns have a -2 to +2 quality (do they?) Maybe -2 could be assigned to the royal sovereign and 0 to Orion and the other WWI superdreadnoughts leaving +1 and +2 for later designs.
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Post by wlbjork on Oct 22, 2021 0:01:53 GMT -6
The main problem with those very big guns is their terrible ROF which really make them unfit for naval combat. You can't straddle and hit the enemy if you're firing your guns every 5 min in the best of cases and without range finder worth mentioning nor fire director. They were good just as shore bombardment -a favourite tactic at the time- or to finish off a damaged -no moving- enemy ship. I wonder if the developers will try to mimic that in the game. Things got better by the turn of the century, though. I really don't know but if all guns have a -2 to +2 quality (do they?) Maybe -2 could be assigned to the royal sovereign and 0 to Orion and the other WWI superdreadnoughts leaving +1 and +2 for later designs. Currently all guns are -1 to +1, except the 13" which specifically has a -2 version which is only available to the British, although they can sell the gun or it can be stolen. I expect that there will be a few more -2 guns with the extended start date. Not so sure about +2 guns - the extended end date may see these introduced.
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Post by tornado1555 on Oct 22, 2021 3:59:46 GMT -6
The main problem with those very big guns is their terrible ROF which really make them unfit for naval combat. You can't straddle and hit the enemy if you're firing your guns every 5 min in the best of cases and without range finder worth mentioning nor fire director. They were good just as shore bombardment -a favourite tactic at the time- or to finish off a damaged -no moving- enemy ship. I wonder if the developers will try to mimic that in the game. Things got better by the turn of the century, though. I really don't know but if all guns have a -2 to +2 quality (do they?) Maybe -2 could be assigned to the royal sovereign and 0 to Orion and the other WWI superdreadnoughts leaving +1 and +2 for later designs. Currently all guns are -1 to +1, except the 13" which specifically has a -2 version which is only available to the British, although they can sell the gun or it can be stolen. I expect that there will be a few more -2 guns with the extended start date. Not so sure about +2 guns - the extended end date may see these introduced. Agreed, the consensus among those I plied the question to in detail has generally been that *at least* one quality more of guns is needed. From RTW1 to RTW2 (20 years end date) we still have no further evolution with guns -- this is a very coarse representation of improvements to naval gun design, and I have to say that Naval Guns category of technologies is probably hogged by AP technologies a bit much. Having my naval guns improve on their own is nice and all, but blast it I want a more accurate naval simulation-- and an accurate naval simulation to me means two things: Overhauls and budgetary overruns. And I can't have either if the guns I have automatically improve over time for no cost, as they do at present! To be fair though, there have been a lot of suggestions as to how to improve the naval gun aspects of the game, ranging from simply adding new qualities to suggestions in the line of christian's complete overhaul of how guns and ammunition are procured. I quite like the idea of a finite number of guns being produced and in storage at a given time-- it would tend to lead to a greater amount of realism in planning and refitting, for instance imagine you are in a tight spot in the budget or are crunched for time, and have a bunch of older, plentiful, and cheaper guns even though newer models are available with superior performance. That was a major historical contributor to surface warship design that is totally absent in the game at the moment. I suppose we'll have to see what priority it receives in the update.
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Post by aardvark on Oct 22, 2021 7:02:20 GMT -6
The main problem with those very big guns is their terrible ROF which really make them unfit for naval combat. You can't straddle and hit the enemy if you're firing your guns every 5 min in the best of cases and without range finder worth mentioning nor fire director. They were good just as shore bombardment -a favourite tactic at the time- or to finish off a damaged -no moving- enemy ship. I wonder if the developers will try to mimic that in the game. Things got better by the turn of the century, though. I really don't know but if all guns have a -2 to +2 quality (do they?) Maybe -2 could be assigned to the royal sovereign and 0 to Orion and the other WWI superdreadnoughts leaving +1 and +2 for later designs. There is an unfortunate interaction with this approach and the existing tech improvement system. Generally, gun improvements either increase the quality of an existing gun by one, or introduce a size increase. Allowing the Royal Navy to start with a 16" gun, even of quality -2, or even a 13" gun of quality -2, gives them a great leg up on everyone else, where historically these guns were abandoned in favor of 12" guns (quality probably -1) in the mid 90s, and later 13"+ guns were new designs.
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Oct 22, 2021 7:48:40 GMT -6
The main problem with those very big guns is their terrible ROF which really make them unfit for naval combat. You can't straddle and hit the enemy if you're firing your guns every 5 min in the best of cases and without range finder worth mentioning nor fire director. They were good just as shore bombardment -a favourite tactic at the time- or to finish off a damaged -no moving- enemy ship. I wonder if the developers will try to mimic that in the game. Things got better by the turn of the century, though. I really don't know but if all guns have a -2 to +2 quality (do they?) Maybe -2 could be assigned to the royal sovereign and 0 to Orion and the other WWI superdreadnoughts leaving +1 and +2 for later designs. There is an unfortunate interaction with this approach and the existing tech improvement system. Generally, gun improvements either increase the quality of an existing gun by one, or introduce a size increase. Allowing the Royal Navy to start with a 16" gun, even of quality -2, or even a 13" gun of quality -2, gives them a great leg up on everyone else, where historically these guns were abandoned in favor of 12" guns (quality probably -1) in the mid 90s, and later 13"+ guns were new designs. -2 Quality guns are going to be non-upgradeable, and furthermore possessing large bore -2 guns does not mean you have "opened the door" to that caliber weapon.
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Post by skyhawk on Oct 22, 2021 9:43:54 GMT -6
There is an unfortunate interaction with this approach and the existing tech improvement system. Generally, gun improvements either increase the quality of an existing gun by one, or introduce a size increase. Allowing the Royal Navy to start with a 16" gun, even of quality -2, or even a 13" gun of quality -2, gives them a great leg up on everyone else, where historically these guns were abandoned in favor of 12" guns (quality probably -1) in the mid 90s, and later 13"+ guns were new designs. -2 Quality guns are going to be non-upgradeable, and furthermore possessing large bore -2 guns does not mean you have "opened the door" to that caliber weapon.
That's good to hear. Based on that i'm guessing we'll get a slew of -2 guns in the upper brackets and then have to research proper "normal" start of game guns around 1900? Suggestion: Add a checkmark box for 'extra' small caliber anti torpedo boat guns, above and beyond the usual, that will give a small boost to hit chances when targeting destroyers in that first ten to fifteen year period.
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Post by TheOtherPoster on Oct 22, 2021 11:32:12 GMT -6
No upgradable Big calibre early guns is a great idea, so everybody will have to develop modern big calibre guns more or less at the same time. I wonder if we could get info about the guns ROF when checking gun characteristics? That way we could better judge if it is more convenient -for example- a 12" -1 quality gun or a let's say 10" 0 quality gun if firing more times in a given time. Of course in battle is a different matter but at least we would have something to better make a decision when building
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Post by vonpanzerhosen on Oct 22, 2021 12:15:23 GMT -6
-2 Quality guns are going to be non-upgradeable, and furthermore possessing large bore -2 guns does not mean you have "opened the door" to that caliber weapon.
Will it be possible to 'upgrade' by refitting to smaller caliber 'modern' guns? I.e. refitting -2Q 13"ers to -1Q 11"?
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Post by stevethecat on Oct 22, 2021 15:26:23 GMT -6
-2 Quality guns are going to be non-upgradeable, and furthermore possessing large bore -2 guns does not mean you have "opened the door" to that caliber weapon.
I hope that, and other similar limitations, are made very clear in game during the ship design phase. As a primarily Royal Navy player, I already feel like they have been handicapped enough with the crazy colonial requirements and other issues, so a hidden 'lol, you can't upgrade that' feature would be quite the kick to the nads.
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