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Post by teitoku on Feb 23, 2021 7:46:23 GMT -6
One thing bugs me to no end regarding rebuilding of ships, why can't I reduce the thickness of armour plates during rebuit?
I mean, increasing the thickness is impossible that is known, I should be able to replace the belt with new thinner plates with extra cost, right?
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Post by director on Feb 23, 2021 9:46:55 GMT -6
Um... maybe. In some cases the armor belt was part of the structure. In all cases, armor was extremely costly and could be very difficult to remove (as in the case of the USS Memphis, wrecked at Santo Domingo in 1916).
You probably could replace the belt but I'm not aware of any case where this was done. It might well cost as much as new engines or even more.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 23, 2021 10:02:12 GMT -6
Um... maybe. In some cases the armor belt was part of the structure. In all cases, armor was extremely costly and could be very difficult to remove (as in the case of the USS Memphis, wrecked at Santo Domingo in 1916). You probably could replace the belt but I'm not aware of any case where this was done. It might well cost as much as new engines or even more. Well, deck protection was increased on almost all British battleships and extra plates on the belt installed. I am researching this in D.K.Brown but it seems as though plates were removed from the sides and increased. More later. |
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Post by seawolf on Feb 23, 2021 14:41:11 GMT -6
Um... maybe. In some cases the armor belt was part of the structure. In all cases, armor was extremely costly and could be very difficult to remove (as in the case of the USS Memphis, wrecked at Santo Domingo in 1916). You probably could replace the belt but I'm not aware of any case where this was done. It might well cost as much as new engines or even more. HMS Renown and HMS Repulse had entirely new belts put in interwar |
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Post by rodentnavy on Feb 23, 2021 14:51:00 GMT -6
Most of the County Class cruisers were refitted from Magazine Box style armour to full length belts.
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Post by stevethecat on Feb 23, 2021 14:54:00 GMT -6
HMS Renown and HMS Repulse had entirely new belts put in interwar
A lot of the early 1915-1920 British capital ship designs featured inclined belts and turtlebacks, much akin to what you would see in some Japanese and German designs, the Admiralty veered away from them precisely as they would have buggers to repair, maintain and replace. So they had accessible, and replaceable armour in mind, or at least as part of the considerations, very early on.
Renown was also refitted with lower armoured strakes to deflect diving shells, and she had a multitude of other reinforcements and internal tweaks.
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Post by seawolf on Feb 23, 2021 15:24:16 GMT -6
HMS Renown and HMS Repulse had entirely new belts put in interwar
A lot of the early 1915-1920 British capital ship designs featured inclined belts and turtlebacks, much akin to what you would see in some Japanese and German designs, the Admiralty veered away from them precisely as they would have buggers to repair, maintain and replace. So they had accessible, and replaceable armour in mind, or at least as part of the considerations, very early on.
Renown was also refitted with lower armoured strakes to deflect diving shells, and she had a multitude of other reinforcements and internal tweaks.
Only Hood had an inclined belt, and every British capital ship until Nelson had a sloped deck. Renown, Repulse, Hood, the Revenges, and the QE's all kept their sloped decks into WWII. In fact, rather than replacing it, they usually reinforced the deck armor, including the slopes. Renown and Repulse were unique among UK ships in that they had their 152mm belts replaced by 229mm ones. |
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Post by stevethecat on Feb 23, 2021 15:31:56 GMT -6
A lot of the early 1915-1920 British capital ship designs .
Only Hood had an inclined belt, and every British capital ship until Nelson had a sloped deck.
I meant designs as in the literal sense, the proposals such as J3, L2, K2, H3 etc. They all featured prominent turtle backs and inclinations.
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Post by seawolf on Feb 23, 2021 15:59:21 GMT -6
Only Hood had an inclined belt, and every British capital ship until Nelson had a sloped deck.
I meant designs as in the literal sense, the proposals such as J3, L2, K2, H3 etc. They all featured prominent turtle backs and inclinations.
L2, H3, and K2 don't have a turtleback, its a sloped deck on top of an inclined internal belt. This is actually similar to Yamato's armor, although she had a weirdly shaped citadel.    J3 Looks like pure AoN with an extended lower deck (Most AoN ships had this)  |
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Post by werty269 on Feb 23, 2021 16:26:19 GMT -6
Didn't they change the armor belts on the Lexingtons when they were converted to CV's?
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Post by seawolf on Feb 23, 2021 16:50:00 GMT -6
Didn't they change the armor belts on the Lexingtons when they were converted to CV's? Akagi and Kaga had replaced belt armor, but I think the Lexingtons kept their main belt The Kongo's had armor changes as well, but the maximum main belt thickness stayed the same |
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Post by jevans on Jan 1, 2024 9:08:39 GMT -6
A lot of the early 1915-1920 British capital ship designs featured inclined belts and turtlebacks, much akin to what you would see in some Japanese and German designs, the Admiralty veered away from them precisely as they would have buggers to repair, maintain and replace. So they had accessible, and replaceable armour in mind, or at least as part of the considerations, very early on.
Renown was also refitted with lower armoured strakes to deflect diving shells, and she had a multitude of other reinforcements and internal tweaks.
Only Hood had an inclined belt, and every British capital ship until Nelson had a sloped deck. Renown, Repulse, Hood, the Revenges, and the QE's all kept their sloped decks into WWII. In fact, rather than replacing it, they usually reinforced the deck armor, including the slopes. Renown and Repulse were unique among UK ships in that they had their 152mm belts replaced by 229mm ones. Renown and Repulse have inclined belts though not as much as Hood, Nelson has an internal inclined belt. I'd refrain from talking about british armour in mms because the plates are weight specified. Renown had a belt of 240lb plate which was replaced by 360lb while Hood had 480lb QE, R and Nelson have 520 lb and KGV has 600/560lb (mag/machinery) Vanguard has 560lb commonly these are given as 240 = 6", 360 = 9", 480 =12", 520 = 13" but in KGV 600 is often given as 14.7" but in Hood (turret face) it's 15" and 560 = 13.7" but then wiki gives 14" for Vanguard. |
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