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Post by microscop on Mar 8, 2021 9:23:25 GMT -6
1890s ships and those laid down in late 1880s used some turret layouts which in the game appear around the begining of drednought era.
Things such as 3 centerline turrets (Brandenburg and Amiral Baudin), Main battery wing turrets (Marceau), Cross deck fire (quite common). Aside from that some old central battery ships from 1880s should be present.
What are the plans to accomodate for this?
Another thing is importance of Spain and China which in 1890 should be present on the map, Spain was intending on building 6 battleships and is a key enemy for 1890s USA while China and Beiyang fleet is important adversary for Japan and potential western colonizers.
South american countries would be also great to see.
Copy pasted from the last page
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jatzi
Full Member
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Post by jatzi on Mar 8, 2021 13:24:14 GMT -6
I'm very curious about this too. Guns were different, very large sizes were used in fact(16 and 17 in guns). Rams were used although by 1890 they probably weren't common. There's more you could talk about, ironclads were weird and varied. How are they going to be represented if at all?
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Post by stevethecat on Mar 8, 2021 15:52:47 GMT -6
Guns were different, very large sizes were used in fact(16 and 17 in guns)
The large guns of that era were typically muzzle-loading and were well out of favour by 1890, it's likely that the game will simply ignore muzzle-loading guns due to their obsolescence. For 1890 12, 12.5, 13.5" BL were the more usual, and usable set-up.
That or unique -4 Quality designators combined with awful ROF's so that the player would reasonably ditch them ASAP.
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Post by microscop on Mar 8, 2021 18:24:39 GMT -6
I'm very curious about this too. Guns were different, very large sizes were used in fact(16 and 17 in guns). Rams were used although by 1890 they probably weren't common. There's more you could talk about, ironclads were weird and varied. How are they going to be represented if at all? Italy had breechloading 17 inch guns on their late 1880s/early 1890s battleships so we will probably get -2 quality 17 inch guns. Legacy fleet ironclads can be wierd but later ones are very similiar to pre drednoughts. As for the ram pretty much all pre drednoughts had rams too but i think that in the 1890s ramming chance should be increased as it was more viable and desired tactic than later on. I think current ramming is more a result of accident collision than intentional atack so the chance is low but in the 1890 ramming chance should be higher or maby there should be ramming button like torpedo atack which would increase the ramming chance. Another thing i would love is Tumblehome hull option in the designer in similiar manner how we have low and high freeboard. Would be nice if Tumblehome increased firing arcs of wing turrets and made guns less vulnerable to weather due to higher freeboard but increased flooding damage. |
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Post by wlbjork on Mar 8, 2021 23:15:51 GMT -6
Might need a check box for muzzle loading (ML) guns and quick firing (QF) guns to represent the earlier and later weapons developments.
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Post by vonfriedman on Mar 9, 2021 14:14:58 GMT -6
The lack of radio communications will require some changes on the battle screen as well.
In particular, it would not be possible to change roles (e.g. from "scout" to "core") for ships that are not in contact with the flagship either by being directly in sight, or - with greater errors and difficulties - by means of other ships that would act as transmitters of flag signals.
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Post by microscop on Mar 9, 2021 15:56:58 GMT -6
The lack of radio communications will require some changes on the battle screen as well. In particular, it would not be possible to change roles (e.g. from "scout" to "core") for ships that are not in contact with the flagship either by being directly in sight, or - with greater errors and difficulties - by means of other ships that would act as transmitters of flag signals. Aside from messenger boats ship carrier torpedo boats should also be included. When i think about it it would be hreat to have maby earlier1885 start so we could enjoy all those new mechancis a bit more. It would be a waste to intorduce alot of new stuff that will quickly become irrelevant in the campaign. |
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Post by vonfriedman on Mar 10, 2021 3:34:12 GMT -6
It should also be made possible to tow ships subject to breakdowns as well as short ranged torpedo boats.
This function would also be useful in other eras. For example USS Canberra and USS Houston were taken in tow off Formosa in 1944.
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Post by microscop on Mar 10, 2021 6:46:40 GMT -6
It should also be made possible to tow ships subject to breakdowns as well as short ranged torpedo boats. This function would also be usaful in other eras. For example USS Canberra and USS Houston were taken in tow off Formosa in 1944. Some ships had internal hangar for torpedo boats, Caio Dulio had one i think and many other carried them on deck. Torpedo boats should can be implemented in similiar manner to floatplanes, shouldn't be hard to add them. |
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jatzi
Full Member
Posts: 123
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Post by jatzi on Mar 10, 2021 8:40:35 GMT -6
Guns were different, very large sizes were used in fact(16 and 17 in guns)
The large guns of that era were typically muzzle-loading and were well out of favour by 1890, it's likely that the game will simply ignore muzzle-loading guns due to their obsolescence. For 1890 12, 12.5, 13.5" BL were the more usual, and usable set-up.
That or unique -4 Quality designators combined with awful ROF's so that the player would reasonably ditch them ASAP.
British muzzleloaders in the 1870s I believe had better RoF than French and German breachloaders. Perhaps not in 1890 but yeah. But the important thing is that ships from the 1880s and 1870s were still in service in 1890. Which is why I've brought it up |
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Post by mobeer on Mar 10, 2021 10:51:55 GMT -6
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Post by tbr on Mar 10, 2021 14:25:03 GMT -6
HMS Shah was not in service as a combatant even in the 1880's, let alone in the 1890's. The article you link explicitly states she was in commisioned service only for three years after completion... |
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Post by director on Mar 11, 2021 0:16:44 GMT -6
tbr - and yet, we are in an alternative history forum discussing the 'what if' of ship construction... so it is quite possible that an existing vessel could have been kept around a while longer. My understanding is that she was quite expensive to operate and retired for that reason. She was kept around in some fashion until 1879 and her iron hull survived until 1926. Parts of her survive to the present day - her iron masts went into HMS Victory sometime around 1887. The British used muzzle-loaders for safety reasons as they were not convinced their Armstrong breech-loaders wouldn't explode. But muzzle-loading equipment is quite bulky and heavy (see HMS Devastation and Thunderer) and also proved to be dangerous (HMS Thunderer loading accident). Torpedoes were rapidly seen to be interesting but not yet developed to the point of being consistently useful, and ship-carried torpedo boats were far less useful than that. Still, if you don't experiment, you don't learn, and for a lot of these innovations it wasn't 'won't work' but 'won't work very well yet'. It was a period of frantic change, with a lot of design decisions tried but with not a lot of success. It will indeed be interesting to see how the game allows all of the wild and wonderful warship weirdness of the period and then, beginning with the 'Admiral' and 'Royal Sovereign' classes, simplify them all away again. Either the design options like wing turrets must remain available (but penalized by weight or cost) or they have to be shut down and later re-invented. I prefer the former method, but it would drastically change the way we design ships in the pre-WW1 era.
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Post by microscop on Mar 11, 2021 12:02:46 GMT -6
HMS Shah was not in service as a combatant even in the 1880's, let alone in the 1890's. The article you link explicitly states she was in commisioned service only for three years after completion... Putting aside that particualr ship, France has plenty of central battery/barbette ironclads in service well into 1890s so those sould certainly be included |
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Post by tbr on Mar 11, 2021 14:02:24 GMT -6
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