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Post by captaintrek on Mar 27, 2021 0:47:35 GMT -6
Just as the title says, I have several questions, but don't see the benefit in making several threads.
1: Are ships with minesweeping gear equally as proficient at sweeping mines regardless of whether they're set to Active Fleet or Trade Protection, or or does this have some impact on their performance?
2: Is the performance of dual-purpose guns against aircraft impacted by RoF penalties imposed by things like crowded secondary battery, crowded centreline, too many main battery guns, etc? The heavy AA factor listed on the design screen doesn't seem affected, but that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't still a deleterious effect.
3: Am I correct in thinking that the fact that the "provide CAP to..." option you have when a carrier division is selected doesn't seem to actually do anything is not a bug, but an as-yet unimplemented feature, like deck park and deck edge lifts?
4: Do carriers still contribute their regional strength to blockades if they don't have any planes?
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Post by wlbjork on Mar 27, 2021 2:06:56 GMT -6
My understanding is that minesweepers assigned to TP duties will slow the spread of enemy minefields, and very occasionally remove one.
Minesweepers assigned to AF reduce the incidence of warships suffering random mine damage between turns.
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Post by captaintrek on Mar 27, 2021 2:19:24 GMT -6
Huh. So it's actually better to have a mixture of both, I guess.
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Post by anoniemuis on Mar 27, 2021 6:48:08 GMT -6
to question 2: the Rof and crowded doesn't affect the fight against planes to my knowledge, only against ships.
to question 3: i have never used this, but you have to take in mind that it uses land based fighters not ship based and you have to be in range of the land bases.
to question 4: yes
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Post by seawolf on Mar 27, 2021 7:52:27 GMT -6
Just as the title says, I have several questions, but don't see the benefit in making several threads. 1: Are ships with minesweeping gear equally as proficient at sweeping mines regardless of whether they're set to Active Fleet or Trade Protection, or or does this have some impact on their performance? 2: Is the performance of dual-purpose guns against aircraft impacted by RoF penalties imposed by things like crowded secondary battery, crowded centreline, too many main battery guns, etc? The heavy AA factor listed on the design screen doesn't seem affected, but that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't still a deleterious effect. 3: Am I correct in thinking that the fact that the "provide CAP to..." option you have when a carrier division is selected doesn't seem to actually do anything is not a bug, but an as-yet unimplemented feature, like deck park and deck edge lifts? 4: Do carriers still contribute their regional strength to blockades if they don't have any planes? Minesweepers act the same regardless of status, but what does have an impact is the region they’re in |
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Post by stevethecat on Mar 27, 2021 7:52:57 GMT -6
to question 2: the Rof and crowded doesn't affect the fight against planes to my knowledge, only against ships.
Mixing different calibres of DP guns apparently does have a hidden efficiency drop though.
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Post by akosjaccik on Mar 27, 2021 8:23:21 GMT -6
"3: Am I correct in thinking that the fact that the "provide CAP to..." option you have when a carrier division is selected doesn't seem to actually do anything is not a bug, but an as-yet unimplemented feature, like deck park and deck edge lifts?"
While it was already pointed out that this option is about requesting land-based escorts, I'll add that making sure that you set it before anything happens (so at turn zero) similarly how you set up your own, carrier-borne CAP and recon sweeps may yield better results. After the AI begins it's flight ops, Lord knows how it works. I do vaguely recall having land-based fighter escorts in some engagements, but honestly, anything that's LBA I just don't take on face-value, so I can't hard-confirm.
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Post by captaintrek on Mar 27, 2021 11:25:46 GMT -6
My thanks to all for the quick, succinct responses to most of these questions. As far as I can tell it isn't actually hidden, because in my current Germany campaign (which right now is in 1945), I can design a ship with 24 4-inch DPs, which gives the ship a reported HAA factor of 59 on the design screen, and if I then give the ship an additional 2 3-inch DPs the reported HAA factor actually goes down, to 55, and doesn't go above 59 until I have added 8 3-inch DPs. And even if I go up to 24 3-inch DPs, the reported HAA factor only goes up to 75, which isn't that much of an improvement when you consider that 24 3-inch DPs on their own provide an HAA factor of 46. I'm also seeing this on my 6-incher destroyers with 3-inch DP secondaries, where the reported HAA factor isn't changing if I try to add DP to the 6-inch rifles while designing a refit for them. That... can't be right... and let me show you why. I whipped up this very small fleet exercise real quick to illustrate:  Firstly we have the Andromache here, which, as you can plainly see, doesn't carry so much as a floatplane.  If we right-click on her division flag, you can also plainly see that the "request land based CAP" option (circled in red), and the "provide CAP to" option (circled in green), are two completely separate things. Moreover, "Provide CAP to" is greyed out, because Andromache doesn't have any planes.  If, on the other hand, we right-click on Courageous' flag, you can once more plainly see that she, theoretically, has the option to be manually ordered to provide CAP to Andromache's division. The problem is that I've tried this repeatedly (and yes, I am setting it up at the very start of the battle before I first unpause. There isn't really any more sensible a time to do it) and it never does anything. CAP never flies out to protect the divisions I specify. The only divisions that ever get CAP in my games are the carrier divisions themselves, and any non-carrier divisions that are the lead formation of a carrier division, with the carrier division having the "support" role selected. This makes protecting my battleships from enemy planes a waking nightmare, as generally speaking the game will generate three "flag" divisions for large-scale fleet engagements late game, that can signal for a flotilla attack - a battleship division with some carriers supporting it, a battlecruiser division with no carrier support, and a carrier division. The problem is that because "Provide CAP to" doesn't work, the flag carrier division and all of its (often many) carrier subordinates, which cannot have divisions outside their existing command structure selected as their lead formation, are completely unable to provide CAP to my battleships, leading to my battleships having but a single, oftentimes inadequate CAP bubble above the flag battleship division and nothing else. I do generally manage, don't get me wrong, but it still sucks. But again, if that feature is merely unimplemented, rather than broken, I can accept that. |
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Post by palpatine on Mar 27, 2021 11:32:29 GMT -6
As a new player myself, I will shamelessly borrow this thread to ask a few questions...
Starting with :
- It it possible for ships of the same class to have different pictures?
I designed two versions of one ship picture (one "home fleet" and one "tropical deployements") but it seems I can't use them individualy. When I try to set one individually one ship to picture A and the following one to picture B, all of them change.
- What are the down side for a short ranged ship?
Is a short-range design viable for units that are supposed to stay in home region(s)? The main idea here for me is to trade medium/long range for a bigger punch, speed or armor, depending on units.
- Is there a "rule of thumb" for armor? I mean : a quick conversion rule of "your armor should be this factor related to that type of gun". I know that distance and so much rules do have an impact, but that's just to get an idea for as long as my personal experience is close to zero.
- Does varied technologies affect also the usefulness of techs (i.e. their very characteristics, making potentially some useless compared to our reality) or is it just the order/time frame?
Thanks!
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Post by captaintrek on Mar 27, 2021 12:44:38 GMT -6
As a new player myself, I will shamelessly borrow this thread to ask a few questions... Starting with : - It it possible for ships of the same class to have different pictures? I designed two versions of one ship picture (one "home fleet" and one "tropical deployements") but it seems I can't use them individualy. When I try to set one individually one ship to picture A and the following one to picture B, all of them change. - What are the down side for a short ranged ship? Is a short-range design viable for units that are supposed to stay in home region(s)? The main idea here for me is to trade medium/long range for a bigger punch, speed or armor, depending on units. - Is there a "rule of thumb" for armor? I mean : a quick conversion rule of "your armor should be this factor related to that type of gun". I know that distance and so much rules do have an impact, but that's just to get an idea for as long as my personal experience is close to zero. - Does varied technologies affect also the usefulness of techs (i.e. their very characteristics, making potentially some useless compared to our reality) or is it just the order/time frame? Thanks! Hrmm. Maybe we need a pinned general Q&A thread... Anyways: Short range: During wartime, short-ranged ships cannot move to another sea zone. It also increases the chances of a ship being unable to spawn into a given battle due to being too far from a friendly base, so whilst short range ships can work for certain nations like Austria-Hungary that are only worried about a single sea zone, even for them I wouldn't recommend putting short range on your destroyers. Short can very often be freely combined with cramped, however, as cramped only has any deleterious effect when the ship is outside of the sea zone of the nation's home area, and short-ranged ships most often are built with the full intention that they will never leave the home area. Armour: Comes down a lot to personal preference, but what I like to do is start off making my battleships proofed against their own guns all the way down to 5,000 yards (which does not require a lot - 7-inch belts on 1899 Bs will do ya), then as technology improves I gradually increase the minimum range that new battleships are required to be immune at until it hits about 12,000 yards. For plunging fire, I only require the ship to remain immune for 10,000 yards after its immunity zone begins (so between 12,000 and 22,000 yards on late-game ships), because sighting and long-range gunnery are pretty awful in this game even late-game, so I only go for more than 4.5-5 inches of deck armour if I'm trying to make my ships completely immune to armour piercing bombs (which requires a 7-inch deck, which in this game is an exceedingly heavy and expensive proposition), though it is generally advisable to ensure all dreadnoughts have at least 2-inch decks for splinter protection (though feel free to scrimp on pre-dreads). Varied tech: Besides it becoming (slightly) more random when you'll get a given tech unlock, there are a few large discreet effects varied tech. can have on a campaign, and as far as I know each campaign will only generate with one: All turrets besides single-turrets can have very high rates of jamming, all armour penetration values can be greatly reduced, or torpedoes can be significantly less effective than normal. There may be others I don't know about. |
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Post by noshurviverse on Mar 27, 2021 13:58:22 GMT -6
- It it possible for ships of the same class to have different pictures? I designed two versions of one ship picture (one "home fleet" and one "tropical deployements") but it seems I can't use them individualy. When I try to set one individually one ship to picture A and the following one to picture B, all of them change. I think the workaround for this might to be do a blank refit of one of the ships. Should probably work then. While that's entirely feasible, I'm fairly certain that short range units get a penalty to being picked by the battle generator. I've tried a combined Medium/Short legacy fleet, and found I was rather consistently pulling ships that had Medium range. This is kind of a complicated question since it relies on a lot of factors, but as a general rule for dreadnoughts, (main battery caliber + 1") is an okay standard for the what I would consider heavy citadel protection. Remember that for sloped deck designs, the shell has to penetrate both the belt and deck to get at engine rooms and magazines. So if you're making some 13" gun BBs with a sloped deck scheme, a 10" belt and 4" deck will give you very good defensive power. Dropping that to 10/3" will still be adequate, but will become rather vulnerable later on as deck penetration increases. For turrets, you generally want those thicker than the belt, since they: 1) do not benefit from the ship's angle, 2) do not benefit from deck armor, 3) make up your firepower, meaning losing them also means losing offensive ability and 4) turret flash fires can blow your whole ship. For cruisers, unless you're making them very large, it can be very difficult to armor against their peers. So in general, I armor for one class below them. So CAs will be armored against CLs (6" guns and so forth), while CLs will be armored against DD, albeit with some protection against CLs as well. Varied tech can change the effects of systems as a whole, to the best of my understanding. So in one campaign, torpedoes might simply not do that much damage. In another, shells might cut through armor like butter, while in another armor might be extremely effective. |
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Post by aeson on Mar 27, 2021 16:14:51 GMT -6
The problem is that I've tried this repeatedly (and yes, I am setting it up at the very start of the battle before I first unpause. There isn't really any more sensible a time to do it) and it never does anything. CAP never flies out to protect the divisions I specify. The only divisions that ever get CAP in my games are the carrier divisions themselves, and any non-carrier divisions that are the lead formation of a carrier division, with the carrier division having the "support" role selected. This makes protecting my battleships from enemy planes a waking nightmare, as generally speaking the game will generate three "flag" divisions for large-scale fleet engagements late game, that can signal for a flotilla attack - a battleship division with some carriers supporting it, a battlecruiser division with no carrier support, and a carrier division. The problem is that because "Provide CAP to" doesn't work, the flag carrier division and all of its (often many) carrier subordinates, which cannot have divisions outside their existing command structure selected as their lead formation, are completely unable to provide CAP to my battleships, leading to my battleships having but a single, oftentimes inadequate CAP bubble above the flag battleship division and nothing else. I do generally manage, don't get me wrong, but it still sucks. But again, if that feature is merely unimplemented, rather than broken, I can accept that. The "Provide CAP to..." function works on my end. How many fighters do your carriers have available? |
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Post by wlbjork on Mar 27, 2021 17:34:40 GMT -6
As a new player myself, I will shamelessly borrow this thread to ask a few questions... Starting with : - What are the down side for a short ranged ship? Is a short-range design viable for units that are supposed to stay in home region(s)? The main idea here for me is to trade medium/long range for a bigger punch, speed or armor, depending on units. Thanks! In addition to the other answers, short ranged ships suffer a penalty to the amount of tonnage contributed when serving abroad, meaning you'll need more hulls for the same effect. |
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Post by captaintrek on Mar 27, 2021 23:06:19 GMT -6
The problem is that I've tried this repeatedly (and yes, I am setting it up at the very start of the battle before I first unpause. There isn't really any more sensible a time to do it) and it never does anything. CAP never flies out to protect the divisions I specify. The only divisions that ever get CAP in my games are the carrier divisions themselves, and any non-carrier divisions that are the lead formation of a carrier division, with the carrier division having the "support" role selected. This makes protecting my battleships from enemy planes a waking nightmare, as generally speaking the game will generate three "flag" divisions for large-scale fleet engagements late game, that can signal for a flotilla attack - a battleship division with some carriers supporting it, a battlecruiser division with no carrier support, and a carrier division. The problem is that because "Provide CAP to" doesn't work, the flag carrier division and all of its (often many) carrier subordinates, which cannot have divisions outside their existing command structure selected as their lead formation, are completely unable to provide CAP to my battleships, leading to my battleships having but a single, oftentimes inadequate CAP bubble above the flag battleship division and nothing else. I do generally manage, don't get me wrong, but it still sucks. But again, if that feature is merely unimplemented, rather than broken, I can accept that. The "Provide CAP to..." function works on my end. How many fighters do your carriers have available? In my current campaign I've built 64 and 96-plane CVs and 32-plane CVLs. Because air power is so oppressive, I make 75% of every carrier's compliment fighters, and the rest torpedo bombers. Could it be that I'm used to always setting CAP to maximum and the "Provide CAP to..." option requires you to drop that down so there are planes "left over" to go to the assigned division? |
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Post by seawolf on Mar 27, 2021 23:17:49 GMT -6
The problem is that I've tried this repeatedly (and yes, I am setting it up at the very start of the battle before I first unpause. There isn't really any more sensible a time to do it) and it never does anything. CAP never flies out to protect the divisions I specify. The only divisions that ever get CAP in my games are the carrier divisions themselves, and any non-carrier divisions that are the lead formation of a carrier division, with the carrier division having the "support" role selected. This makes protecting my battleships from enemy planes a waking nightmare, as generally speaking the game will generate three "flag" divisions for large-scale fleet engagements late game, that can signal for a flotilla attack - a battleship division with some carriers supporting it, a battlecruiser division with no carrier support, and a carrier division. The problem is that because "Provide CAP to" doesn't work, the flag carrier division and all of its (often many) carrier subordinates, which cannot have divisions outside their existing command structure selected as their lead formation, are completely unable to provide CAP to my battleships, leading to my battleships having but a single, oftentimes inadequate CAP bubble above the flag battleship division and nothing else. I do generally manage, don't get me wrong, but it still sucks. But again, if that feature is merely unimplemented, rather than broken, I can accept that. The "Provide CAP to..." function works on my end. How many fighters do your carriers have available? Haven’t confirmed this personally, but someone on discord said it only works for CVLs in their game |
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