What would a 1970 map look like?

[Emma de Normandie]

Since now we know with the DLC is coming our way, the game will support plays through 1970. This made me wonder, how would a 1970 starting map look like?

In the game we have two starts, 1900 and the less popular 1920, some territories/colonies change hands depending on which starting year you choose. But if I were to attempt to create a game scenario of a game starting in 1970, hypothetically speaking, what would the world map look like?

Since after WWII, both the US and the USSR pushed for "decolonization" for the old European powers while aggressively inserting influence and control in those supposedly newly freed "independent nations". Is it even possible to reflect this on the world map?

This could be very tricky. For example, many British possessions developed closer relations with the US. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, became reliant on the US for their national defense while these countries remain commonwealth states with Queen Elizabeth as their head of state... Should these places be neutral, British, or American?

Iceland, Norway were both funding members of NATO, they are independent states but again, covered with US military presence... Are they neutral or American possessions? India was supposedly neutral, but had heavy Soviet influence, so is India really neutral? 

Then there's the ugly situation of shared control... Djibouti had UK, US, and French military bases, at the same time. Same goes for many territories in West Africa, which are basically French colonies with the CFA Franc system but also had US military bases scattered on their soil... Are they French or American possessions?

I thought about posting this thread in the mods section since it is not particularly related to the game, after all, the game was designed focusing on naval competitions in the first half of the 20th century, but again I am not asking a question regarding a specific mod so here we go.

After all this game is not supposed to go through the time period of 1970, yet. But since this game supports realistic history playthroughs, and the DLC will surely cover 1970, I thought I might throw it out there and see what other people think. 

Let me know what you feel a 1970 start world map should look like, even better if you can post an image of the game map after the edits. I'm just trying to get some advice/ideas.

Thanks

[palpatine]

I tend to see possession as direct colonies/direct rule or as puppet regime/protectorates or even very close allies, depending on the timeframe and the location.

For a 1970 start, if you want a somewhat historical start, I guess the workaround would be to do a "Western aligned/Nato" nation, a "Moscow aligned/socialist/Warsaw pact" nation and perhaps some other players (China? They did not resurrect before the 2000's actually) including the failed non-aligned or even pan-arabs that failed to exist?

The gray ones could be non-aligned, varying between red and blue with coups, revolutions, clandestine actions... (events, then).

[Emma de Normandie]

Apr 5, 2021 2:53:38 GMT -6 palpatine said:

I tend to see possession as direct colonies/direct rule or as puppet regime/protectorates or even very close allies, depending on the timeframe and the location.

For a 1970 start, if you want a somewhat historical start, I guess the workaround would be to do a "Western aligned/Nato" nation, a "Moscow aligned/socialist/Warsaw pact" nation and perhaps some other players (China? They did not resurrect before the 2000's actually) including the failed non-aligned or even pan-arabs that failed to exist?

The gray ones could be non-aligned, varying between red and blue with coups, revolutions, clandestine actions... (events, then).

That's a very good idea, I have thought about it as well. The thing is, in the cold war, there are so many Western aligned and Soviet aligned nation, it'll leave almost no neutral colonies left on the map. Some colonies lose their significance as well. For example, Bermuda no longer has a strategic value, Midway loses it's value as a military base. In the meantime, some very importance territories are not in the game at all, for example, Rota in Spain, Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, Bahrain in the Middle East, the Azores archipelago and Ascension islands in the Atlantic. These were all critical military strongholds that had immense value in the Cold War.

[wlbjork]

Why would there be a 1970 start when the game is scheduled to end sometime between 1970 and 1980?

A 1940 or 1950 start on the other hand wouldn't be too unreasonable.

[Emma de Normandie]

Apr 5, 2021 16:23:13 GMT -6 wlbjork said:

Why would there be a 1970 start when the game is scheduled to end sometime between 1970 and 1980?

A 1940 or 1950 start on the other hand wouldn't be too unreasonable.

The British still having control of India, South Africa, Canada and Australia in the 1970s looks and seems so out of place and strange.

[dorn]

Apr 5, 2021 23:14:43 GMT -6 Emma de Normandie said:

Apr 5, 2021 16:23:13 GMT -6 wlbjork said:

Why would there be a 1970 start when the game is scheduled to end sometime between 1970 and 1980?

A 1940 or 1950 start on the other hand wouldn't be too unreasonable.

The British still having control of India, South Africa, Canada and Australia in the 1970s looks and seems so out of place and strange.

Not completely. Without WW2 British empire would probably not disolve their colonial empire so quickly.
With declining economy hegemony from the second half of the 19th century, the colonial empire was more and more important for British economy.

So it depends when you start in history and deviation from it.
RTW does not completely simulate global conflicts as they are completely different than any type of previous conflicts, even Napoleon wars.

Both global conflicts have tremendeous effect in geopolitical situation which is far beyond any simulation can reasonable do.
On opposite local conflicts before that era has more predictable effects.

[palpatine]

All thoughts about why and how Empires dissolve being apart, if one wants a start post 1950's and especially post 1960's, I guess the option is "red side", "blue side", "non aligned", and adapted events when there are rebellions/independences to send the former colonies (I am mostly thinking about Asia & Africa) to one camp, the other or neither.

Also, the map could indeed receive some changes, but this is not going to happen in a mod .

[mobeer]

The longer the period of the game the more it seems the territories need their own AI. For example India could increasingly want to be independent. The player gets regular support\oppose independence events, then when India does gain independence it is friendly\hostile as a result.

But that might have to wait for a better multipolar world - RtW 3?

[rimbecano]

Apr 5, 2021 23:14:43 GMT -6 Emma de Normandie said:

Apr 5, 2021 16:23:13 GMT -6 wlbjork said:

Why would there be a 1970 start when the game is scheduled to end sometime between 1970 and 1980?

A 1940 or 1950 start on the other hand wouldn't be too unreasonable.

The British still having control of India, South Africa, Canada and Australia in the 1970s looks and seems so out of place and strange.

Canada, Newfoundland, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa were already substantially independent by WWI. But at least the first four (and I think in many cases SA as well) would almost certainly join Britain in any war she might become involved in to this day, and all of them, plus India and even Pakistan, still have the Queen for their head of state (which isn't even true in *Ireland* anymore).

So at least Canada+Newfoundland, Australia, and NZ, ought, as I see it, to be part of Britain in a 1970 start.

[janxol]

If I understand correctly, 1970 will be the END date, not the start date. So this discussion doesn't seem particularly relevant in this regard.