Legacy Fleet Design with Britain at Super-large size

[RvT (Dickie)]

If you've been put off playing Great Britain at super large size because you find the scale a bit daunting, I've made this video to help out: 

Super-large Legacy Fleet design made easy 
youtu.be/oMDIfcpoxdo

It tackles the problem of scale of Britain as the Boss fleet: having so much money and having to fulfil such a large foreign stations requirement.

The video includes an explanation on how you can use this spreadsheet to help with your planning:
Legacy Fleet Planner
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oEMf5AKuv4b5-Zd5-anrxTGYfCCCVf-C9SFEUZLI9ZY/edit#gid=877862140


Cheers

Dickie at RvT WarGamesAnalysis
www.youtube.com/c/RvTWarGamesAnalysis

[AbleMaster]

Thanks, good vid will try, being putting it off. 👍

[brygun]

Quick look

One of the efficient builds for foreign service is a ~1,600 ton corvette with limited guns and speed with the colonial fittings. 2 x 5" (for and aft) and say 4 of 3" secondaries. Speed 20-21-22 knots.

The spreadsheet does look interesting and you certainly spent a good deal of time and thought in organizing it.

Perhaps somewhere give quick notes on the speed, weapons of the starter designs as you list both tons and cost.

There is also some huh? moments such as what is:

DD - TB 300

[JagdFlanker]

only skimmed the vid since i'v already played a billion hours of this game and already have my own ways, but i'l throw in my perspective since i like to take the easy route with colonial stations

i personally only build 6000t colonial CLs - heavier ships lose tonnage when applied against foreign stations, and i build 1 type of colonial ship to keep it simple. i used to use KEs but after 15 or 20 years their upkeep doubles (at least it did in earlier versions, i havn't built any KEs in the last 10-15 games)

at game start i build the minimum required ships for colonial stations + 2-4 extra ships (perhaps + 5-8 for UK) just in case some break down, and to have extras to be on station when you refit them. i also stick with med range/normal engine - long range/reliable engines add massive cost, and i want numbers over reliability

i don't manually assign ships to specific colonial stations, that is WAY too much micro, and makes it difficult to refit them. i assign all colonial ships to FS, mainly to try and keep them out of battles - i want my good ships to get engagements, not 2nd or 3rd rate colonial ships. sure they roam everywhere and sometimes get involved in skirmishes i don't want them involved with, but it's worth not dealing with the micro

although it increases the cost i also outfit my colonial CLs with 8" guns so if they do get into battles they can defend themselves and reduce losses, plus (being lazy) i auto-resolve all raider battles so this lets them defeat equivalent and lesser opponents while usually being able to retreat from larger opponents.  i might lose 1-3 colonial CLs the entire game - this game i'v only lost 1 so far

[RvT (Dickie)]

May 18, 2021 6:50:57 GMT -6 brygun said:

Quick look

One of the efficient builds for foreign service is a ~1,600 ton corvette with limited guns and speed with the colonial fittings. 2 x 5" (for and aft) and say 4 of 3" secondaries. Speed 20-21-22 knots.

The spreadsheet does look interesting and you certainly spent a good deal of time and thought in organizing it.

Perhaps somewhere give quick notes on the speed, weapons of the starter designs as you list both tons and cost.

There is also some huh? moments such as what is:

DD - TB 300

DD - TB is experimenting with a 300t Destroyer - effectively a Torpedo Boat, rather than a Torpedo Boat Destroyer (to give them their original name) - they are two-thirds the price, can pack quite a bit of punch (small gun and a couple of torpedoes, with 25kn) and after their are too old and slow for the battle fleet, on trade protection they count as a hull just like any other ship. I'm experimenting with them. They were discussed on another thread here (not my idea, it never occurred to me you could build smaller DDs)

[RvT (Dickie)]

May 18, 2021 8:08:09 GMT -6 JagdFlanker said:

only skimmed the vid since i'v already played a billion hours of this game and already have my own ways, but i'l throw in my perspective since i like to take the easy route with colonial stations

i personally only build 6000t colonial CLs - heavier ships lose tonnage when applied against foreign stations, and i build 1 type of colonial ship to keep it simple. i used to use KEs but after 15 or 20 years their upkeep doubles (at least it did in earlier versions, i havn't built any KEs in the last 10-15 games)

at game start i build the minimum required ships for colonial stations + 2-4 extra ships (perhaps + 5-8 for UK) just in case some break down, and to have extras to be on station when you refit them. i also stick with med range/normal engine - long range/reliable engines add massive cost, and i want numbers over reliability

i don't manually assign ships to specific colonial stations, that is WAY too much micro, and makes it difficult to refit them. i assign all colonial ships to FS, mainly to try and keep them out of battles - i want my good ships to get engagements, not 2nd or 3rd rate colonial ships. sure they roam everywhere and sometimes get involved in skirmishes i don't want them involved with, but it's worth not dealing with the micro

although it increases the cost i also outfit my colonial CLs with 8" guns so if they do get into battles they can defend themselves and reduce losses, plus (being lazy) i auto-resolve all raider battles so this lets them defeat equivalent and lesser opponents while usually being able to retreat from larger opponents.  i might lose 1-3 colonial CLs the entire game - this game i'v only lost 1 so far

View Attachment

That's interesting alternative strategy, effectively, aside from delegating control of the colonial fleet to the AI (aka being lazy ) you are effectively making the 1900 colonial fleet part of the battle fleet and voting for a simpler life!

You are right, it will cost a lot more to fulfil your foreign station requirements - so your home battle fleet will be smaller, plus you won't be able to double-up your colonial fleet as an anti-submarine / minesweeping force. But you'll have an ace anti-raider force that's a lot less bother to build and look after.

Thanks for sharing! 

[RvT (Dickie)]

Made my own copy of the 8in gun, 6,000t colonial cruiser - 1900 style (with a little extra armour to make it into a CA)

[kotori87]

I also opted to delegate my colonial requirements to FS in my playthrough as Britain. It was not the most cost-efficient option, but it saved me a huge amount of headache trying to balance my colonial requirements. Very much a valid choice if micromanaging isn't your thing.

[wlbjork]

What you save in micromanagement, you lose in colonies suffering localised blockades and risk of invasion. In the case of Japan, you also reduce the chance of having forces in place that can execute a surprise attack.

[RvT (Dickie)]

May 18, 2021 21:30:40 GMT -6 wlbjork said:

What you save in micromanagement, you lose in colonies suffering localised blockades and risk of invasion. In the case of Japan, you also reduce the chance of having forces in place that can execute a surprise attack.

That's a really cunning point about Japan - if you want to de-fang the Japanese surprise attack you could just base KE 1,600t gunboats in Northeast Asia. 

[RvT (Dickie)]

May 18, 2021 15:58:46 GMT -6 kotori87 said:

I also opted to delegate my colonial requirements to FS in my playthrough as Britain. It was not the most cost-efficient option, but it saved me a huge amount of headache trying to balance my colonial requirements. Very much a valid choice if micromanaging isn't your thing.

Sounds like a new Design Study comparison video waiting to be made, if you ask me 

Kotori87 Gaming Design Studies
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDnbr3ORf8MQqnnBYHo6_KpK90oHPxlE3

[t3rm1dor]

May 18, 2021 8:08:09 GMT -6 JagdFlanker said:

only skimmed the vid since i'v already played a billion hours of this game and already have my own ways, but i'l throw in my perspective since i like to take the easy route with colonial stations

i personally only build 6000t colonial CLs - heavier ships lose tonnage when applied against foreign stations, and i build 1 type of colonial ship to keep it simple. i used to use KEs but after 15 or 20 years their upkeep doubles (at least it did in earlier versions, i havn't built any KEs in the last 10-15 games)

at game start i build the minimum required ships for colonial stations + 2-4 extra ships (perhaps + 5-8 for UK) just in case some break down, and to have extras to be on station when you refit them. i also stick with med range/normal engine - long range/reliable engines add massive cost, and i want numbers over reliability

i don't manually assign ships to specific colonial stations, that is WAY too much micro, and makes it difficult to refit them. i assign all colonial ships to FS, mainly to try and keep them out of battles - i want my good ships to get engagements, not 2nd or 3rd rate colonial ships. sure they roam everywhere and sometimes get involved in skirmishes i don't want them involved with, but it's worth not dealing with the micro

although it increases the cost i also outfit my colonial CLs with 8" guns so if they do get into battles they can defend themselves and reduce losses, plus (being lazy) i auto-resolve all raider battles so this lets them defeat equivalent and lesser opponents while usually being able to retreat from larger opponents.  i might lose 1-3 colonial CLs the entire game - this game i'v only lost 1 so far

View Attachment

Old ships don't get increased maintainance cost after ten years, so the 1600 ton Ke are still the most cost efficient way to cover colinal needs, specially if build to be as chaep as possible (ie, 12kt speed and 1 3in gun) . Of course their combat usage is limited to fullfilling the trade protection quota, but in some situations they may be the best strategic choice.

Edit: Okay I checked it out and there is a 50% increase on cost on 20 year old ship that haven't being refitted. Still refitting a Ke withouth changing anything is dirty cheap, so as along as they are reffited every 20 years there are still a much cheaper option.

[TheOtherPoster]

Congratulations for this video and for your channel. All that analysis and depth really makes the game more interesting and fun to play.

A couple of minor things I do differently when playing super large 1900 Britain:

First, with so much money available, I like to keep a couple of cheap CLs separate from both the battle and colonial fleets. I assign them to raiders at the beginning of the war. The idea is that if I suffer operational losses in my colonial fleet and fall under the ton requirements then I will use one of the raiders to fill up the gap without weakening the battle fleet.

About the composition of your colonial fleet I think is very good: 2 or 3 capital ships, 10 or 12 CLs and 30 or 40 KEs. All colonial. Only I'm not very keen on 2nd class battleships (Centurion, Canopus and the like). They will struggle to stop an attack on a convoy and are too slow to chase anything away.

Instead of 2nd class battleships I use big 12,000tm or heavier CAs -colonial, long range, 22 knots and with a couple of 11" or 12" main guns- kind of Spanish Carlos V on steroids (or rather an upgunned Cressy).
When at war, I assign my colonial fleet -including CAs- to TP. They cannot join the fleet at home waters because they're part of Britain's huge ton requirements. Also, as per RTW2 manual, long range ships on TP are more likely to intercept raiders, which is a good reason to put long range CAs on TP.