Invasion Issues

[hawkeye]

I'm not sure if this is a bug or working as intended, so here goes.

Situation:
I'm playing Astria-Hungary, 1900 start, larger fleet, harsher peace, 60% research rate, slow a/c development, manual legacy fleet.
It's 1901 and I'm in a war with Italy while allied with Germany.
It's the 3rd month of the war, I'm blockaded and Italy tries to invade Dalmatia (invasion battle)

In the battle, Italy gets it's transports through before I can sink them.
I sink two B, six DDs and all 7 TR afterwards
I lose five DDs

1st pop-up after the battle:
"Enemy troops have laded in Dalmatia"
2nd pop-up after the battle:
"The Italian army has defeated our beleaguered forces in Dalmatia"

And now I can't even invade Dalmatia right back, because I'm still blockaded (my navy is actually slightly larger than the Italian now, but the "A/H is easy to blockade because the Adriatic is easy to blockade" kicks in here)

Now, there are several things wrong with this.

1. look at this screenshot from the battle result.



Unless there has been a change in how math works, there is no way in hell Italy should get out of this battle with 121k points.
They get 70k for achieving the objective and they get 16.8k points for damage dealt to my ships. That adds up to 86.8k points, not 121k!

2. How come my 6" coastal battery, that was EXPRESSLY build in Dalmatia to prolong any potential invasion land combat didn't buy me even a single month? Sorry, I have to call BS on this.

3. Since I'm still blockaded (my fleet is actually slightly superior to the Italian navy, but with the modifier, Italy can still pull it off) I now can't even invade Dalmatia right back.
Um, what?
I can literally walk an army over into Dalmatia while Italy has supply it's army across the Adriatic!
And even if I couldn't, A/H is easily blockaded because the Adriatic is easily blockaded - Dalmatia is INSIDE the Adriatic. 
Blockading the Adriatic does Jack-S**t in preventing a counter invasion from me.


IMO, the whole "you can't conduct an invasion if you are blockaded" thingy is kinda stupid.
Sure, the enemy might have superior force in the area - or he might not.
Anyway, if I _want_ to invade, I am perfectly capable of organizing a bunch of troop transports and steam them out along the bulk of my navy, no matter if I'm "blockaded" or not.
There will very likely be a large fleet engagement, but I may be confident that I can take on the enemy fleet and if I can't and lose half or more of my fleet along with the troop transports, then that are the consequences of my doing.

Outright preventing me from even trying is just, well, stupid?

[nimrod]

"I can literally walk an army over into Dalmatia while Italy has supply it's army across the Adriatic!" and "IMO, the whole "you can't conduct an invasion if you are blockaded" thingy is kinda stupid.
Sure, the enemy might have superior force in the area - or he might not.
Anyway, if I _want_ to invade, I am perfectly capable of organizing a bunch of troop transports and steam them out along the bulk of my navy, no matter if I'm "blockaded" or not.
There will very likely be a large fleet engagement, but I may be confident that I can take on the enemy fleet and if I can't and lose half or more of my fleet along with the troop transports, then that are the consequences of my doing.

Outright preventing me from even trying is just, well, stupid?"

I concur. I've had the opposite of your experience, Italy invades Malta against all odds and the invasion immediately failed... First screen shot says I failed to get 4 transports to objective, but that was reported incorrectly. All transports made under cover of night and were sunk in the morning...

        

Malta can't support such a massive fleet, so the fleet is likely based in Alexandria. As such the Italian proximity to Malta, should indicate a decent (at least a fighting) chance to secure it... I mean, look at the battle of Crete in WWII, which was much closer to Alexandria than Malta is. Or one can look at the German invasion of Norway, or some of the channel islands... A blockade doesn't mean the ships are arrayed to fight a decisive engagement on short notice, or to do so under enemy air cover or in submarine infested waters. 

I would love to see some invasion modifiers based on owning or being allied to an land adjacent territory. The blitzkrieg and Japanese surprise attack events seem to try and mimic some elements of an Army invasion, in that they aren't paid for out of the navy budget and with a blitz event it result in immediate acquisition... But their really needs to be some sort of random invasion and bonuses for invasions that have overland supply, overland invasion routes, etc... Russia and Germany have this same situation with their home territories and the Baltic states.

Ultimately some sort of supply / fleet train network, that accounts for land connections, would be incredible in the game; but in lieu of that, having some hefty bonuses for invading territories adjacent to your home territory would address the need. I'm thinking reduced invasion cost, no chance of storms delaying the invasion, much higher chance of successfully taking the territory each turn, etc... Smaller bonuses could be implemented for being adjacent to a colony or other territory that doesn't have a land based connection to the home territory. Lots of places have bad roads, rail systems, limited access through mountain passes, etc.; I would not want to see a one size fits all - home territories where manufacturing is occurring should supply different bonuses than an isolated colony / town.

[wlbjork]

May 22, 2021 4:49:43 GMT -6 hawkeye said:

2. How come my 6" coastal battery, that was EXPRESSLY build in Dalmatia to prolong any potential invasion land combat didn't buy me even a single month? Sorry, I have to call BS on this.

There's no guarantee that a single coastal battery will do anything. Heck, there's no guarantee that a pair of 6" batteries will do anything.

All we know is there's a chance that coastal fortifications can delay an invasion and slow a conquest. Basically, the game is rolling dice behind the scenes on our behalf. We don't know what size dice are being rolled or what the tables are that are being rolled on.


My guess is that you roll once per fortification rather than fortifications modifing the roll though.

[janxol]

With regards to preventing invasion while blockaded, there are indeed circumstances where it makes absolutely no sense. I had similar thing as Russia. I wanted to invade a possession in North-East Asia (where Russia does have a home area) while being blockaded in Europe. Can't do it.

[durhamdave]

May 25, 2021 6:12:00 GMT -6 janxol said:

With regards to preventing invasion while blockaded, there are indeed circumstances where it makes absolutely no sense. I had similar thing as Russia. I wanted to invade a possession in North-East Asia (where Russia does have a home area) while being blockaded in Europe. Can't do it.

Although Russia not being able to do as much overland in Asia is why the naval battle of Tsushima basically lost them the Russo-Japanese war, so it doesn't always follow just because it is a home area.

[hawkeye]

To be honest, if the Russians hadn't "panicked" after Tsushima but continued the war, I'd give them more than a 50/50 chance, they would have won (like, 80/20).
Russia has a land-based connection to the area. Granted, the Trans-Siberian Railroad isn't a _great_ connection, but it is probably just as good as the Japanese's one across the sea - and Russia would have had a _lot_ more soldiers to throw into a meat-grinder.

[janxol]

I'd say Tsushima and its outcome is irrelevant to the invasion. Assume for the sake of invasion that naval superiority in the region has been achieved using Pacific Squadron only, while Europe is under blockade. Still, in game Russia cannot invade anything in the Far East, not even British and German possession, who don't have a home area like Japan and Russia do.