Post by Laffey Chan on Jul 28, 2021 8:51:39 GMT -6
Now, I think there was already a debate on this, but I've been playing Japan recently, and wanted to roleplay with the 4in guns, but doing the math it is evident to me that, compared to 5in, it is just bad... Sure, it's much ligher per mounting, but both are so light that the difference isn't nearly signifficant enough to outweigh the disadvantages except in rare cases.
First, lets look at the stats. I will disregard penetration and range, but do keep in mind that in both of these 5in holds an advantage in as well.
For AA, 5in seems to contribute ~10% more to heavy aa, though this varies from ~15% more at 0 guns to ~8% at 24.
From this you can see that 5in has 50% more dpm on per gun basis. For capital ships, everyone just slaps on 24x5in because it is simply superior and the ~200-300 tons of weight difference is negligible... And for top tier AA cruisers or DD, where you go right up to the limit in terms of guns and centerline space, 4in is just not competivive. Only for specific cases like secondaries on small heavy cruisers (like at 8k tons where you can get 24x4in vs 16x5in) or for early DD where 5in would get a penalty, is it useful.
So, what I want is to allow ships to have more 4in guns than 5in.
For example, for dual purpose CL currently 4in and 5in guns go up to 16 main gun barrels with no penalties, and max out at 20 with 20% ROF penalty. 4in could be buffed to go up to 20 (or maybe 18) guns with no penalty and 24 guns with 20% penalty. This would make them relatively balanced, as 4in would hold a slight advantage in AA and total weight and 5in would hold a moderate advantage in surface combat.
Current situation:
After proposed changes:
*AA rating will vary depending on many factors but hopefully the proportion will remain the same
Next up, for DD, while currently you can get up to 8 guns with no penalty, 4in guns could instead go up to 10 guns (yay Harugumo). Also, somewhat unrelated, but the penalty for 12 guns is still 10% ROF, so designs like 12x5in are actually more viable than rather more sensible 10x4in. And of course, you can also make 12x6in dd, with only 20% penalty, because that's totally realistic...
Same changes can be made for 2in and 3in, tho who even uses those
Also, while I do not know how heavy these guns are IRL, they seem way too light, fitting an extra turret is easier than gaining one knot of speed... Increasing light gun weight in general should make the fact that 4in guns are much lighter more useful.
Finally, for BB, 5in can be given penalties at 22 and 24 guns. It would make the historical USN configuration more desirable and achieve a similar effect.
First, lets look at the stats. I will disregard penetration and range, but do keep in mind that in both of these 5in holds an advantage in as well.
Damage | ROF | DPM | Gun weight | |
4in | ~10,08 | 20 | ~201,6 | 6 |
5in | ~15,83 | 19 | ~300,8 | 11 |
From this you can see that 5in has 50% more dpm on per gun basis. For capital ships, everyone just slaps on 24x5in because it is simply superior and the ~200-300 tons of weight difference is negligible... And for top tier AA cruisers or DD, where you go right up to the limit in terms of guns and centerline space, 4in is just not competivive. Only for specific cases like secondaries on small heavy cruisers (like at 8k tons where you can get 24x4in vs 16x5in) or for early DD where 5in would get a penalty, is it useful.
So, what I want is to allow ships to have more 4in guns than 5in.
For example, for dual purpose CL currently 4in and 5in guns go up to 16 main gun barrels with no penalties, and max out at 20 with 20% ROF penalty. 4in could be buffed to go up to 20 (or maybe 18) guns with no penalty and 24 guns with 20% penalty. This would make them relatively balanced, as 4in would hold a slight advantage in AA and total weight and 5in would hold a moderate advantage in surface combat.
Current situation:
Surface DPM | AA rating | |
16x5in | 4812,8 | 53 |
16x4in | 3225,6 (-33%) | 47 (-11.3%) |
Surface DPM (with penalty) | AA rating | |
20x5in | 4812,8 | 65 |
20x4in | 3225,6 (-33%) | 58 (-10.8%) |
After proposed changes:
Surface DPM | AA rating | |
16x5in | 4812,8 | 53 |
20x4in | 4032 (-16.2%) | 58 (+9.4%) |
18x4in | 3628,8 (-24.6%) | 53 (+0%) |
Surface DPM (with penalty) | AA rating | |
20x5in | 4812,8 | 65 |
24x4in | 3870,7 (-19,6%) | 69 (+6.15%) |
Next up, for DD, while currently you can get up to 8 guns with no penalty, 4in guns could instead go up to 10 guns (yay Harugumo). Also, somewhat unrelated, but the penalty for 12 guns is still 10% ROF, so designs like 12x5in are actually more viable than rather more sensible 10x4in. And of course, you can also make 12x6in dd, with only 20% penalty, because that's totally realistic...
Surface DPM | AA rating | |
8x5in | 2406,4 | 27 |
10x4in | 2016 (-16.2%) | 29 (+7.4%) |
Same changes can be made for 2in and 3in, tho who even uses those
Also, while I do not know how heavy these guns are IRL, they seem way too light, fitting an extra turret is easier than gaining one knot of speed... Increasing light gun weight in general should make the fact that 4in guns are much lighter more useful.
Finally, for BB, 5in can be given penalties at 22 and 24 guns. It would make the historical USN configuration more desirable and achieve a similar effect.