stww2
New Member
Posts: 39
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Post by stww2 on Jul 31, 2021 14:42:30 GMT -6
Playing through my first RTW2 campaign and really enjoying it thus far. Playing as the US, I have mainly been relying on Corvettes for trade protection. Since I rarely actually see them in battle, I configure them to have good ASW values and don't really worry about their capabilities beyond that. I've been noticing that quite a few are being sunk by enemy submarines in "spirited gun duals." (those are some bold sub skippers by the way; when I was playing Silent Hunter I would almost never gun dual anything!) Does the design of the corvette affect its chances in these sort of engagements? As in, if I put more guns on my corvettes, will the frequency of these losses decrease? Or is the "spirited gun dual" just part of the message text, and in actuality the game just randomly chooses whether a corvette that has been deemed lost to a sub will have been sunk by guns instead of torpedoes?
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Post by gurudennis on Jul 31, 2021 15:09:07 GMT -6
You get these events regardless of how well-armed the corvette may be. The only predictable factor seems to be how many subs the enemy has. I suppose this may have been intended to simulate operational losses.
One thing I've never experimented with is whether this happens to small ASW DDs just as well.
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Post by noshurviverse on Jul 31, 2021 16:19:24 GMT -6
You get these events regardless of how well-armed the corvette may be. The only predictable factor seems to be how many subs the enemy has. I suppose this may have been intended to simulate operational losses. One thing I've never experimented with is whether this happens to small ASW DDs just as well. It does not, you will never see a "DD sunk in gunnery duel" event. |
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Post by charliezulu on Jul 31, 2021 23:29:04 GMT -6
I ran a test with two very similar ships (900 ton unarmoured KE, then the same ship with a single torp launcher stuck on and reclassified as a DD), and I didn't notice a significant difference in losses. KEs were sunk slightly more often, and they were sunk for different reasons (KEs lost in gun duels, DDs lost due to torpedo), but without having done any stringent tests I suspect it's just a difference in flavour text.
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stww2
New Member
Posts: 39
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Post by stww2 on Aug 1, 2021 15:53:10 GMT -6
Thanks for the responses everyone! No heavily-armed corvette construction for me then.
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Post by gurudennis on Aug 1, 2021 19:11:34 GMT -6
As a corollary to this conclusion, I'm beginning to warm up to the idea of building a bunch of 200-ton corvette conversions with extra DC storage at the start of every war with a nation that has let's say 50+ subs. If I'm going to lose a bunch of ships it might as well be dirt cheap ones, at least partially.
This is naturally in addition to keeping a dedicated standing fleet of 900-ton ASW corvettes with forward mortars (if available), which is normal practice for me. I tend to maintain 40+ of these online at any time on Very Large fleet size. Losing them does add up to quite an expense though.
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Post by nimrod on Aug 2, 2021 12:31:06 GMT -6
I ran a test with two very similar ships (900 ton unarmoured KE, then the same ship with a single torp launcher stuck on and reclassified as a DD), and I didn't notice a significant difference in losses. KEs were sunk slightly more often, and they were sunk for different reasons (KEs lost in gun duels, DDs lost due to torpedo), but without having done any stringent tests I suspect it's just a difference in flavour text. Pretty much what I see. I haven't noticed a difference in losses due to TP or AF usage, but I haven't specifically tracked it either.
I'm very sure from a game play standpoint it is flavor text... The manual indicates that different subs carry different numbers of torpedo's, so it is possible that the DD sinking consume a torpedo die role while the KE sinking don't. But I don't think this is the case, given the similar levels of KE vs DD sinking. I think their is only one type of attack that is rolled for during the strategic turn; so it doesn't matter if the text says gun or torp, the sub attack seems to come from the same dice.
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Post by golingarf on Aug 11, 2021 13:09:07 GMT -6
I routinely give my KE:s 2" belt and turret armor and have never seen them lost in a gun duel. Same with MS:s in RTW1. I'm not sure if this is coincidence, though, as I haven't logged much play time. I also don't know if it's the belt armor, the turret armor, or the combination that's doing it.
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Post by thomasmacmoragh on Aug 16, 2021 8:17:55 GMT -6
I routinely give my KE:s 2" belt and turret armor and have never seen them lost in a gun duel. Same with MS:s in RTW1. I'm not sure if this is coincidence, though, as I haven't logged much play time. I also don't know if it's the belt armor, the turret armor, or the combination that's doing it. you can give a ke armor?
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Post by gurudennis on Aug 16, 2021 10:40:44 GMT -6
You bet. It's a waste of money, but you can. The reason presumably being that it's there to model the various early 20th century colonial auxiliaries. |
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Post by nimrod on Aug 16, 2021 11:16:23 GMT -6
I routinely give my KE:s 2" belt and turret armor and have never seen them lost in a gun duel. Same with MS:s in RTW1. I'm not sure if this is coincidence, though, as I haven't logged much play time. I also don't know if it's the belt armor, the turret armor, or the combination that's doing it. Testing 2" KE belt armor on 700 ton and 900 ton 5" armed KEs in an Italian game. I'm intentionally not armoring the turrets or CT. I have had two wars with submarines and I'm just hitting 1917, but so far no KE losses to subs. No DD losses to subs either, but some ships been damaged by sub torpedoes, so they are active. Will post again in the 1920's or 1930's once I start seeing significant sub activity.
Thanks for the tip.
Just FYI - gurudennis's view has been my own. The low speed and general inability to control them in most battles has meant that they have been bare-bones ASW, MS or colonial aux in my navies. If the gunnery duels are calculated independently of torpedo attacks, than armoring larger (read as: 1600 ton colonial aux KE) probably makes some game-play sense. Hence the belt armor test to see how it correlates with what golingarf reported.
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Post by nimrod on Aug 23, 2021 19:23:17 GMT -6
Quick update:
I'm not noting KEs being sunk by guns with 2" of belt armor. In fact, most KEs being sunk be they mine or my varied enemies are being sunk by torpedoes -
So... I'm not sure what to make of this... My gut says that the placeholder text changed for all parties involved, but I'm not sure why. I've seen the KE torpedoed event numerous times through 1933 as Italy. It is interesting to see.
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Post by charliezulu on Aug 23, 2021 21:39:36 GMT -6
At this point, it might bear fruit to try out a game where the player navy is only various types of ASW escorts and the AI navy is save-edited to only be submarines. Try out KEs with belt armour, KEs with significant guns, KEs with TPS, DEs with significant guns, and DEs with TPS to see what kind of death messages are produced and the relative rates at which they sink. In a recent game, I noticed that I was getting a lot of DEs with TPS2 surviving torpedo hits from subs, and while they're a bit more micro intensive (and possibly cost more in repairs) than just accepting the losses, it may work out to be advantageous; however, it's very hard to be sure if it's actually _better_.
Sadly save-editing in two hundred submarines while deleting all of the AI's surface ships will probably take a while. Oh well.
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