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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 16, 2021 14:31:39 GMT -6
I suggest that the game include natural disasters. These disasters can change economics, geopolitics and host of other human created functions. My list would be: 1. Volcanic Eruptions 2. Earthquakes (Subduction faults are the most dangerous, they generate the largest faults) 3. Tsunamis 4. Tropical Cyclones or Hurricanes 5. Floods 6. Solar Flares 7 Wild Fires 8. Droughts with Dust Storms that create Dust Bowls 9. Tornadoes This is just a few and I don't know if we need them all, but it would and could add variability to a nations life and/or the worlds. We could even have a Little Ice Age.
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Post by wlbjork on Sept 17, 2021 13:20:04 GMT -6
On the one hand, I can see potential, but on the other hand extreme weather events were less common even as recently as 50 years ago.
Still, even once-in-a-century events should have a fair-to-middling chance to pop once in an 80-year game.
Have a generic "this event affects location X" message, with event being determined by location?
I think then the following consequences would be simplest:
Colonies - owner and/or allies provide aid - slight reduction in rebellion chances - owner and/or allies don't provide aid - slight increase in rebellion chance - rival provides aid - slight increase in chance of a coup in the rival's favour
Home Territory - owner and/or allies provide aid - reduction in unrest - owner and/or allies provide aid - increase in unrest - rival provides aid - increase in unrest
In all cases, aiding a foreign power should provide a slight decrease in tension
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Post by ludovic on Sept 18, 2021 7:56:18 GMT -6
I like wlbjork's idea of adding a "natural disaster" to the mix of events for variety's sake and make the specific event determined by location, however, I can't think of events that would affect most of the European home territories (with the exception of Italy) during that time frame that would be significant enough to cause a noticeable effect. Although that's possibly just good luck as there have been several "years without a summer" that affected the globe in the past few millennia.
The effects seem pretty good too as long as it's going to be simple. Not all disasters would cause an increase in rebellion chances, but the ones that cause a food shortage would. If it were up to me I'd add in a prestige increase for aiding your colonies, and a prestige hit for not aiding your home territory. Maybe for disasters in the home territory there could be 3 choices: A) ask for foreign aid, which would increase unrest and decrease prestige, B) Appeal to patriotism and ask the populace to just rebuild, which would be a small hit to the base resources of the country as they struggle to rebuild their capital investments, or C) Volunteer naval funds and/or ships to help rebuild, which would be a one-time hit to cash.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 18, 2021 9:32:41 GMT -6
I like wlbjork's idea of adding a "natural disaster" to the mix of events for variety's sake and make the specific event determined by location, however, I can't think of events that would affect most of the European home territories (with the exception of Italy) during that time frame that would be significant enough to cause a noticeable effect. Although that's possibly just good luck as there have been several "years without a summer" that affected the globe in the past few millennia. The effects seem pretty good too as long as it's going to be simple. Not all disasters would cause an increase in rebellion chances, but the ones that cause a food shortage would. If it were up to me I'd add in a prestige increase for aiding your colonies, and a prestige hit for not aiding your home territory. Maybe for disasters in the home territory there could be 3 choices: A) ask for foreign aid, which would increase unrest and decrease prestige, B) Appeal to patriotism and ask the populace to just rebuild, which would be a small hit to the base resources of the country as they struggle to rebuild their capital investments, or C) Volunteer naval funds and/or ships to help rebuild, which would be a one-time hit to cash. I agree with his suggestion. As to what could affect Europe, volcanism in Iceland can affect the sky's and everything causing possibly lack of sun and droughts. Also the Azores High which is known as the North Atlantic anticyclone can change and can affect the weather in Europe, it already has done that and caused problems in the Med which helped end the Roman Empire. www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-variability-north-atlantic-oscillationtheconversation.com/how-18th-century-weather-diaries-shed-light-on-the-effects-of-an-icelandic-volcanic-eruption-on-scotland-156002
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Post by wevets on Sept 18, 2021 10:10:09 GMT -6
The Tokyo Earthquake severely affected Japanese building of ships in the 1920s (or 30s?)
And there was a big hurricane in 1944(maybe?) that affected US ships in the western Pacific
Maybe the fog that led a bunch of US destroyers around on the California coast in the 1920s or 30s?
It seems like this is a good idea that maybe could be a rare event, firing maybe 3 or 4 times over the course of a game?
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 18, 2021 10:33:41 GMT -6
The Tokyo Earthquake severely affected Japanese building of ships in the 1920s (or 30s?) And there was a big hurricane in 1944(maybe?) that affected US ships in the western Pacific Maybe the fog that led a bunch of US destroyers around on the California coast in the 1920s or 30s? It seems like this is a good idea that maybe could be a rare event, firing maybe 3 or 4 times over the course of a game? Yes, that is entirely correct. In fact, my father-in-Law was in the Halsey Hurricane as it was termed. The Honda Point disaster in 1923 and the Tokyo Earthquake of 1923. This quake was called the Great Kanto Earthquake.
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Post by dohboy on Sept 18, 2021 10:52:05 GMT -6
On the one hand, I can see potential, but on the other hand extreme weather events were less common even as recently as 50 years ago. They were absolutely as common in the past as they are now, and they were more deadly on average despite far fewer people living on the coasts. They are arguably getting more intense individually, but not more frequent. We also have better ability to observe and predict weather than they did 100 years ago. We can see a lot farther than the horizon. The USN used to lose ships in hurricanes on a regular basis. The advantages gained in the last 100 years dwarf any potential increase in the strength of storms. It's hard to find a war from the time before modern meteorology where extreme weather didn't have a major impact on naval actions. The Persians losing hundreds of ships off Artimisium. The almost complete destruction of the Roman fleet in the First Punic War. The Kamikaze saved Japan from Mongol invasion not once but twice. Halsey's Typhoon in 1944 didn't quite work out for them, but it did severe damage and it wasn't the only time during that war that we lost ships to storms.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 18, 2021 11:15:39 GMT -6
You don't need natural disasters to cause naval problems, strong storms can slow down a fleet. A carrier can do about 28 knots or higher through a storm but not destroyers. They will contact the carrier and tell it to slow down. You have areas like the Sunda Straits where Krakatoa is located that are vital passages for warships. Bremerton Washington is the site of a vital US naval base and repair facility and has been for many years even in WW2. It is located near a subduction fault which can cause a 9.0 earthquake. Japan is located on that kind of fault system. Very bad weather can cause problems in the Baltic, along the Norwegian Coast and Murmansk. Ice flows coming down through the Davis Strait, into the Labrador Sea could hinder convoys. Hurricane's in the Gulf of Mexico and along our eastern coast can cause a lot of damage to bases and ships in Norfolk. Mount Vesuvius erupted during WW2 with the loss of 80 B-25 Bombers. It also stalled the Allied Advance in Italy. It caused more damage than the Germany Air Force on that one day.
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Post by wlbjork on Sept 18, 2021 15:38:38 GMT -6
Plenty of options. The Med is tectonically active - there are two faults at the Santinori Archipelago alone, Kolumbo and Kameni, with Santinori also being the name of the volcano. Other Volcanoes include Mounts Etna and Vesuvius (Pompeii).
The UK is especially prone to flooding.
Plenty of options, even for Europe.
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Post by williammiller on Sept 18, 2021 16:27:47 GMT -6
Have considered something like this, but my worry is that some/many players might not be happy with a natural disaster almost entirely beyond their control altering the fate of their game.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 18, 2021 16:54:26 GMT -6
Have considered something like this, but my worry is that some/many players might not be happy with a natural disaster almost entirely beyond their control altering the fate of their game. I understand but the only thing you can control in natural disasters is to plan for them with better buildings, weather radar etc. Something that can be included in the game. Almost no natural disaster can be planned or anticipated except hurricanes and tropical storms. But that has only occurred in the last thirty to forty years. Geologists, meteorologist etc. have only begun to understand these disasters since the end of WW2. I think that at least one or maybe two disasters should be included but that as technology improves, anticipation could begin to arise.
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Post by tornado1555 on Sept 18, 2021 23:56:10 GMT -6
I agree with oldpop2000 - disasters could well be there for the player to overcome, or even use to his advantage as they don't just have to occur to the player's nation. Natural disasters directly or indirectly affecting the navy's situation sounds very interesting to me.
And I don't intend to come off badly, but as for a natural disaster that is "almost entirely beyond their [the player's] control", I think that an occasional earthquake or other regional or possession-level event would help much more than hurt-- particularly as the player base possesses the common memory of the VP sapping and sometimes game-ending menace to contrast: submarine spam. The Deep Lord of Subpens is definitely one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse of the old/current RTW meta.
To me it sounds like a nice additional extra bit of depth that the game would have. Perhaps, though, it more comes down to what amount of dev resources and interest can be spared for that sort of thing and how long the priority list currently is.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 19, 2021 6:49:01 GMT -6
I agree with oldpop2000 - disasters could well be there for the player to overcome, or even use to his advantage as they don't just have to occur to the player's nation. Natural disasters directly or indirectly affecting the navy's situation sounds very interesting to me. And I don't intend to come off badly, but as for a natural disaster that is "almost entirely beyond their [the player's] control", I think that an occasional earthquake or other regional or possession-level event would help much more than hurt-- particularly as the player base possesses the common memory of the VP sapping and sometimes game-ending menace to contrast: submarine spam. The Deep Lord of Subpens is definitely one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse of the old/current RTW meta. To me it sounds like a nice additional extra bit of depth that the game would have. Perhaps, though, it more comes down to what amount of dev resources and interest can be spared for that sort of thing and how long the priority list currently is. Thanks for your support, it will be vital.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 19, 2021 6:49:55 GMT -6
Here is a link that might help the cause for installing natural disasters, it has some good data to use. ourworldindata.org/natural-disastersSuggestion: Examine the Average annual global deaths from natural disasters by decade, 1900-2015 table.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 19, 2021 11:11:48 GMT -6
Here are the four major natural disasters after 1900 to 1955 1. 1906 San Francisco Earthquake 2. Great Kanto Earthquake of 1923 - Japan 3. Yangtze River Flood of 1935 China 4. Haiyuan Earthquake of 1920 - China 5. Dust Bowl - Circa 1931-1939 USA 6. Eruption of Mount Pelee - Martinique - 1902 7. Eruption of Vesuvius - 1944
If we use 1950 as the closing date, then we have a major natural disasters every 7 years and this does not include Hurricanes and tropical storms in the Atlantic, Pacific and in the Far East.
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