vilab
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by vilab on Mar 15, 2023 12:23:22 GMT -6
Hi, sharing a few ideas i think could provide a better experience to the players.
I dislike the lack of control on the stance of the fleet in an area and the battle scenarios being introduced as " cruiser battle : X BB, Y BC, Z Ca... "... Accept or refuse battle Y/N ? with direct VP penalty.
Not only i have no information on what the ennemy might be actually using, but i have no idea and control whatsoever on what my own forces will be.
I suggest :
Having more varied stance for fleet beside "active" "trade protection" and "raider", there could be "agressive" to support invasions, initiate shore bombardments and blockades, or "defensive" to not challenge a blockade but protect the infrastrutures from ennemy activities.
"hot reinforcements" available to the player from nearby allied ports or other task forces at sea
Have the battle be introduced in a more organic way and provide some opportunity to the player of picking which ship should go meet the ennemy,
exemple :
introducing and completing the battle scenarios with more or less precise intel reports :
"One of our picket submarine spotted 3 ennemy capital ships and at least 4 cruiser and 9 destroyers heading toward our coast, shall we try to intercept them ? " "Our agents send us a report that the German Battleship division in Wilhelmshaven is raising steam, should we ready the fleet to depart ?( data on that division and estimated ennemy ships in the area )"
"Cruiser X from merchant convoy Q-11 - also escorted by CL Y and D and 4 destroyers - report 4 smoke trail ahead, should we order immediate reinforcements ? ( known and estimated ennemy forces in the area )"
"The ennemy Heavy cruiser X and Y have been seen departing, should we increase convoy protection in the area? ( data on those... )"
While in battle scenario : " We receive report of increased radio activity arround grid XY ", " Submarine S-5 report 2 capital ships and 5 escort heading NNW grid XY"
Multiple choice answer according to the type of scenario prompt : - awaiting further information ( risk letting the ennemy complete their objective unchallenged / increase the delay for further reactions. ) - sending the most ready ships ahead, with delayed reinforcements ( offer a good opportunity to delay the ennemy and/or trap it with heavy units ) - wait to assemble a bigger force before heading to sea, ( might receive more intel, but risks losing all interception opportunity ) - disregard the report.
With choices 2 and 3 then offering the player the ability to pick among the immediatly available ships as well as planned reinforcement, thus allowing not using obsolete ships or ones which are extremely unfit for the task.
This would offer the opportunity to under or over-react to ennemy actions, thus risking being overwhelmed or wasting fuel, maintenance hours, and rest for the crew. Small engagements could grow in size to full fleet engagements as the AI could also react to the players forces in the area : chasing down a couples of ennemy cruisers to their home port would be much riskier.
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Post by perfectpastrami on Mar 21, 2023 8:29:41 GMT -6
Honestly, i like this idea. Maybe not how i'd execute it though. I'd like to be able to, for instance, try to force the opponent into a fleet engagement by sending out a challenge they cannot allow to go unanswered, if you know what i mean. I'm honestly tired of having entire wars where my opponent is so much weaker, i never actually get to engage them, because they will refuse to fight any battles that aren't advantageous to them.
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Post by cormallen on Mar 22, 2023 6:58:47 GMT -6
Honestly, i like this idea. Maybe not how i'd execute it though. I'd like to be able to, for instance, try to force the opponent into a fleet engagement by sending out a challenge they cannot allow to go unanswered, if you know what i mean. I'm honestly tired of having entire wars where my opponent is so much weaker, i never actually get to engage them, because they will refuse to fight any battles that aren't advantageous to them. I do feel your pain but it's not really a practicable proposition in this period as coastal mines etc make old-school "Copenhagen" style assaults way too risky! It's why the RN adopted the "Distant Blockade" strategy rather than the close inshore idea that the Germans seem to have assumed was their only option? The HSF tried coastal raiding to provoke more vulnerable RN patrolling that they hoped to jump with elements of their fleet but if they'd just stayed at home there wouldn't have been terribly much Jellicoe could have done to get at them tbh...
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Post by seawolf on Mar 22, 2023 20:18:19 GMT -6
Honestly, i like this idea. Maybe not how i'd execute it though. I'd like to be able to, for instance, try to force the opponent into a fleet engagement by sending out a challenge they cannot allow to go unanswered, if you know what i mean. I'm honestly tired of having entire wars where my opponent is so much weaker, i never actually get to engage them, because they will refuse to fight any battles that aren't advantageous to them. I do feel your pain but it's not really a practicable proposition in this period as coastal mines etc make old-school "Copenhagen" style assaults way too risky! It's why the RN adopted the "Distant Blockade" strategy rather than the close inshore idea that the Germans seem to have assumed was their only option? The HSF tried coastal raiding to provoke more vulnerable RN patrolling that they hoped to jump with elements of their fleet but if they'd just stayed at home there wouldn't have been terribly much Jellicoe could have done to get at them tbh... I'd say it depends pretty heavily fortification and time period: In WWII a good number of fleets got hit in port, even excluding Pearl and the sub attacks: Mers El Kebir was more of a surprise attack, but that, Dakar, and Casablanca all caught French fleets in port. Warspite and her gang, of course, caught the german destroyer squadrons in harbour at Narvik At Truk and a couple other islands in the pacific the US battleships got in gun range of the harbors and wiped out the remaining fleets inside And that's without considering the massive number of aircraft(carrier or land based) attacks that hit fleets in port-Taranto and Kure of course sank capital ships, but it was a pretty common occurrence in the war to lose escorts, destroyers, and even cruisers to air attack in harbor, if you didn't have sufficient air cover. And of course, even the German fleets in their old HSF anchorages ended up getting thwacked by the RAF in WWII once they lost the ability to control German skies.
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Post by srndacful on Mar 22, 2023 23:22:27 GMT -6
I do feel your pain but it's not really a practicable proposition in this period as coastal mines etc make old-school "Copenhagen" style assaults way too risky! It's why the RN adopted the "Distant Blockade" strategy rather than the close inshore idea that the Germans seem to have assumed was their only option? The HSF tried coastal raiding to provoke more vulnerable RN patrolling that they hoped to jump with elements of their fleet but if they'd just stayed at home there wouldn't have been terribly much Jellicoe could have done to get at them tbh... I'd say it depends pretty heavily fortification and time period: In WWII a good number of fleets got hit in port, even excluding Pearl and the sub attacks: Mers El Kebir was more of a surprise attack, but that, Dakar, and Casablanca all caught French fleets in port. Warspite and her gang, of course, caught the german destroyer squadrons in harbour at Narvik At Truk and a couple other islands in the pacific the US battleships got in gun range of the harbors and wiped out the remaining fleets inside And that's without considering the massive number of aircraft(carrier or land based) attacks that hit fleets in port-Taranto and Kure of course sank capital ships, but it was a pretty common occurrence in the war to lose escorts, destroyers, and even cruisers to air attack in harbor, if you didn't have sufficient air cover. And of course, even the German fleets in their old HSF anchorages ended up getting thwacked by the RAF in WWII once they lost the ability to control German skies. This. I was thinking about proposing a rework of the whole 'ports as magical portals to safety' clusterfuck we have right now, but never got very far due to real-life pressures. It ran something like this: - we already have coastal batteries and their associated mines (which were the main port's defences prior to aviation) as a mechanic in the game - so have each port auto-generate it's defences according to it's size - create 'anchorages' - aka places where ships will come to rest within a certain distance from the port (distance according to size?) to get the 'in port' bonuses - no magical disappearances into the void: ships will always be right there - some of the ships not included in the battle or in reserve or mothballs could also have a chance to appear - with those on active duty (and maybe in reserve?) being able to lend some fire support to the port's defences - after airfields become available, possibly create an 'Army Air Force' airfield (according to size) attached to it and chock-full of fighters (and maybe some bombers?) for air defence of the city where the port is stationed This would help create a somewhat more realistic environment where getting to port doesn't automatically ensure safety, and an attack by sufficiently determined (or just sufficiently powerful) enemy could completely wreck your day - just like in real life. That was just a quick outline, sadly - now I'm off to work on my ever-increasing list of chores. Cheers!
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Post by cormallen on Mar 23, 2023 16:16:39 GMT -6
I do feel your pain but it's not really a practicable proposition in this period as coastal mines etc make old-school "Copenhagen" style assaults way too risky! It's why the RN adopted the "Distant Blockade" strategy rather than the close inshore idea that the Germans seem to have assumed was their only option? The HSF tried coastal raiding to provoke more vulnerable RN patrolling that they hoped to jump with elements of their fleet but if they'd just stayed at home there wouldn't have been terribly much Jellicoe could have done to get at them tbh... I'd say it depends pretty heavily fortification and time period: In WWII a good number of fleets got hit in port, even excluding Pearl and the sub attacks: Mers El Kebir was more of a surprise attack, but that, Dakar, and Casablanca all caught French fleets in port. Warspite and her gang, of course, caught the german destroyer squadrons in harbour at Narvik At Truk and a couple other islands in the pacific the US battleships got in gun range of the harbors and wiped out the remaining fleets inside And that's without considering the massive number of aircraft(carrier or land based) attacks that hit fleets in port-Taranto and Kure of course sank capital ships, but it was a pretty common occurrence in the war to lose escorts, destroyers, and even cruisers to air attack in harbor, if you didn't have sufficient air cover. And of course, even the German fleets in their old HSF anchorages ended up getting thwacked by the RAF in WWII once they lost the ability to control German skies. Airpower certainly opens a whole new box but until then I don't think anyone got a MAJOR base hammered from the sea? In the European theatre land based allied airpower made the big Northern/Western French ports basically unusable for major units, the Channel Dash was driven by heavy attacks that would have reduced the twins to wrecks in months. In game the effects of that sort of massed striking power is (thankfully?) muted but once aero engines get strong enough to drag multiple thousand pounders far enough at enough speed and altitude to make penetration feasible (mid thirties maybe?) then putting sizable bits of your fleet near the enemy gets rather less viable?
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Post by cormallen on Mar 23, 2023 16:30:28 GMT -6
I'd say it depends pretty heavily fortification and time period: In WWII a good number of fleets got hit in port, even excluding Pearl and the sub attacks: Mers El Kebir was more of a surprise attack, but that, Dakar, and Casablanca all caught French fleets in port. Warspite and her gang, of course, caught the german destroyer squadrons in harbour at Narvik At Truk and a couple other islands in the pacific the US battleships got in gun range of the harbors and wiped out the remaining fleets inside And that's without considering the massive number of aircraft(carrier or land based) attacks that hit fleets in port-Taranto and Kure of course sank capital ships, but it was a pretty common occurrence in the war to lose escorts, destroyers, and even cruisers to air attack in harbor, if you didn't have sufficient air cover. And of course, even the German fleets in their old HSF anchorages ended up getting thwacked by the RAF in WWII once they lost the ability to control German skies. This. I was thinking about proposing a rework of the whole 'ports as magical portals to safety' clusterfuck we have right now, but never got very far due to real-life pressures. It ran something like this: - we already have coastal batteries and their associated mines (which were the main port's defences prior to aviation) as a mechanic in the game - so have each port auto-generate it's defences according to it's size - create 'anchorages' - aka places where ships will come to rest within a certain distance from the port (distance according to size?) to get the 'in port' bonuses - no magical disappearances into the void: ships will always be right there - some of the ships not included in the battle or in reserve or mothballs could also have a chance to appear - with those on active duty (and maybe in reserve?) being able to lend some fire support to the port's defences - after airfields become available, possibly create an 'Army Air Force' airfield (according to size) attached to it and chock-full of fighters (and maybe some bombers?) for air defence of the city where the port is stationed This would help create a somewhat more realistic environment where getting to port doesn't automatically ensure safety, and an attack by sufficiently determined (or just sufficiently powerful) enemy could completely wreck your day - just like in real life. That was just a quick outline, sadly - now I'm off to work on my ever-increasing list of chores. Cheers! I'd certainly like the ability to have more variation between bases and be able to place new ones to support strategic offensives. It's possible to increase basing but it takes years!
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Post by avimimus on Apr 1, 2023 17:28:17 GMT -6
What I would like an ability to initiate an engagement... through planning operations: - 'An attaché presents an idea for a daring coastal raid' - 'An army commander is demanding a bombardment' - 'The submarine corps believes it has found a gap in a minefield' - 'The government wants a decisive battle'
With the player able to spend VP to try to get a strategy agreed to.
The result would be a higher probability of encounters of the types which align with the strategy/location chosen. Of course, the AI would also selects its own strategy and preferred locations for encounters - and there would also be random scenarios that neither side planned for.
But it would be good to try to shift priorities or something in a way that would give the impression of something like a major operation in the Philippines, or a decision to double-down on convoy raiding, or to focus on shore bombardments to support coastal army operations in littoral waters... it'd give more of a sense of coherency of operations/strategy.
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Post by shadowkiller44 on Apr 3, 2023 8:30:06 GMT -6
I'd say it depends pretty heavily fortification and time period: In WWII a good number of fleets got hit in port, even excluding Pearl and the sub attacks: Mers El Kebir was more of a surprise attack, but that, Dakar, and Casablanca all caught French fleets in port. Warspite and her gang, of course, caught the german destroyer squadrons in harbour at Narvik At Truk and a couple other islands in the pacific the US battleships got in gun range of the harbors and wiped out the remaining fleets inside And that's without considering the massive number of aircraft(carrier or land based) attacks that hit fleets in port-Taranto and Kure of course sank capital ships, but it was a pretty common occurrence in the war to lose escorts, destroyers, and even cruisers to air attack in harbor, if you didn't have sufficient air cover. And of course, even the German fleets in their old HSF anchorages ended up getting thwacked by the RAF in WWII once they lost the ability to control German skies. Airpower certainly opens a whole new box but until then I don't think anyone got a MAJOR base hammered from the sea? In the European theatre land based allied airpower made the big Northern/Western French ports basically unusable for major units, the Channel Dash was driven by heavy attacks that would have reduced the twins to wrecks in months. In game the effects of that sort of massed striking power is (thankfully?) muted but once aero engines get strong enough to drag multiple thousand pounders far enough at enough speed and altitude to make penetration feasible (mid thirties maybe?) then putting sizable bits of your fleet near the enemy gets rather less viable? The americans did some interesting "Fleet Problems" that involved carrier forces. Raiding pearl for example in one fleet problem...twice.
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