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Post by byro12345 on May 15, 2023 6:17:14 GMT -6
Pretty much in the title
I was playing a China game in rtw2 and I was frustrated that I couldn’t create my own aircraft
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 15, 2023 6:44:08 GMT -6
Pretty much in the title I was playing a China game in rtw2 and I was frustrated that I couldn’t create my own aircraft IMO, that fact would be accurate for the time period of the game. The Chinese Nationalist Air Force began in 1937 during the Second Sino-Japanese War. It used Boeing P-26's initially, and later the Polikarpov I-15 and I-16. So the game is following with historical accuracy. Now having said that, the game is a virtually historical game, so maybe the ability to design and produce your own aircraft could be included. Just my opinion, of course. |
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Post by byro12345 on May 15, 2023 8:04:43 GMT -6
Pretty much in the title I was playing a China game in rtw2 and I was frustrated that I couldn’t create my own aircraft IMO, that fact would be accurate for the time period of the game. The Chinese Nationalist Air Force began in 1937 during the Second Sino-Japanese War. It used Boeing P-26's initially, and later the Polikarpov I-15 and I-16. So the game is following with historical accuracy. Now having said that, the game is a virtually historical game, so maybe the ability to design and produce your own aircraft could be included. Just my opinion, of course. I know but it goes into the 1970s and I just think it would be neat to have that option |
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 15, 2023 9:26:51 GMT -6
IMO, that fact would be accurate for the time period of the game. The Chinese Nationalist Air Force began in 1937 during the Second Sino-Japanese War. It used Boeing P-26's initially, and later the Polikarpov I-15 and I-16. So the game is following with historical accuracy. Now having said that, the game is a virtually historical game, so maybe the ability to design and produce your own aircraft could be included. Just my opinion, of course. I know but it goes into the 1970s and I just think it would be neat to have that option I agree. They began working on their own home-designed aircraft in about 1960's, However the first aircraft was the Shenyang J-8 which came out in 1979. |
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Post by xenontennessee on May 15, 2023 11:15:38 GMT -6
I was somewhere reminded that China in game is stronger than historically, and is like a "what if" option, so I guess it is better to give this nation an opportunity to become stronger in air industry than historically  Although I can modify the txt file myself, I think this would be a necessary adjustment for those who want to play China but cannot withstand importing aircrafts during the whole game process |
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Post by byro12345 on May 15, 2023 11:24:58 GMT -6
I know but it goes into the 1970s and I just think it would be neat to have that option I agree. They began working on their own home-designed aircraft in about 1960's, However the first aircraft was the Shenyang J-8 which came out in 1979. True but it isn’t unfeasible for China to start producing aircraft earlier during the timeframe either |
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Post by byro12345 on May 15, 2023 11:26:30 GMT -6
I was somewhere reminded that China in game is stronger than historically, and is like a "what if" option, so I guess it is better to give this nation an opportunity to become stronger in air industry than historically Although I can modify the txt file myself, I think this would be a necessary adjustment for those who want to play China but cannot withstand importing aircrafts during the whole game process Another one of my points is that China is more powerful then it is in real life Also trying to modify China to aircraft is very hard for me becuase I cant get into the txt files |
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Post by cwemyss on May 15, 2023 12:09:29 GMT -6
If Spain gets an aviation industry, so should China. Not sure if that's the case in game, but there's similarity IRL. I dont think Spain built a domestically-designed plane until the 20's, and comparatively few even after that
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Post by blarglol on May 15, 2023 17:48:50 GMT -6
If Spain gets an aviation industry, so should China. Not sure if that's the case in game, but there's similarity IRL. I dont think Spain built a domestically-designed plane until the 20's, and comparatively few even after that Perhaps, but there is a big difference in their situations. Building a domestic aircraft in the 1920s is not 1979. Spain was much closer to European centers of aircraft design and production. By comparison, China was quite isolated.
Japan certainly wasn't going to share things with them (easy prey for imperial conquest), and Russia and the US had larger concerns for most of this time period except when providing aircraft became imperative to help stop the Japanese. |
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Post by pvtlarry99 on May 16, 2023 1:04:53 GMT -6
Building a domestic aircraft in the 1920s is not 1979. Spain was much closer to European centers of aircraft design and production. By comparison, China was quite isolated. [/div]
Japan certainly wasn't going to share things with them (easy prey for imperial conquest), and Russia and the US had larger concerns for most of this time period except when providing aircraft became imperative to help stop the Japanese. [/quote] The thing is that in the game the Chinese situation (like that of Spain) can deviate greatly from historically. China in RTW has the possibility of beating Japan, and, presumably, avoiding the prolonged internal turmoil of the early 20th century, allowing for earlier economic development. As far as I'm concerned I think it's fair to permit domestic aircraft development from the 1940s or so. |
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Post by foxxoniusaugustus on May 16, 2023 2:44:11 GMT -6
If China is not allowed to domestically produce aircraft because they did not historically then they should also not be allowed to domestically produce ships over 2,500 tons till the 30s since they didn't do that either. /s
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Post by kriegsmeister on May 16, 2023 5:00:40 GMT -6
If China is not allowed to domestically produce aircraft because they did not historically then they should also not be allowed to domestically produce ships over 2,500 tons till the 30s since they didn't do that either. /s This is a big point. The latter half of the 19th century was all about the rise of new powers. Russia, Germany, Japan, italy, and the US were the only ones to really survive the turn of the millenia and began serious industrial naval development. China, Brazil, Chile, Argentina and several others had the money to outsource their industry and had things gone differently in our timline, they all had the chance to rise to be global powers. Would be interesting to see a national trait for some minor regional powers to be incapable of domestically producing ships beyond KE/DD size until some trigger like defeating a major power. In the same vein like the US did to Spain and Japan to Russua |
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mar
New Member
What? No, I mean that I'm a fresh hand, I am.
Posts: 8
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Post by mar on May 16, 2023 5:24:42 GMT -6
I was somewhere reminded that China in game is stronger than historically, and is like a "what if" option, so I guess it is better to give this nation an opportunity to become stronger in air industry than historically Although I can modify the txt file myself, I think this would be a necessary adjustment for those who want to play China but cannot withstand importing aircrafts during the whole game process Somehow it is difficult to postpone the starting date of Chinese self-designed aircraft to mid-1950s all by editing the game files(zzz) |
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 16, 2023 7:05:26 GMT -6
One of the issues with historical war games is whether you wish to follow the path of history, and see how well you would have handled the events of time. On the other hand, it is interesting to follow another path; the path that never happened and see how this path would have turned out. Both are interesting and fun. I believe that a game should allow us to follow both paths, with our choice. Do you wish to follow history? Or do you wish to follow another path that never happened. There are some paths that never could have happened due to lack of natural resources, social upheaval or even climate. So our choices are limited. The Spanish Air Force historically was dependent on the Coup of 1936 which would cause a fracture in the Spanish military. Spanish aviation had already started to develop years earlier. As has been stated, they had advantages of geography being at the entrance to the Mediterranean and having political and military responsibilities in the Med. You cannot escape geography.
Now for the Chinese aviation history began in around 1924. However, internal strife caused this growth to be stunted. The need for an air force just wasn't available to the Chinese government which was in turmoil. In 1911 the Qing Dynasty collapsed and China declared itself a republic. In 1921 the Chinese Communist Party was founded. This started the internal political strife which lasted probably from the 1920's to the 1950. You can't develop technology and especially aviation with internal strife politically and along with severe climate change which probably started in the 1880's. In the interwar period, there was a very steep rise in temperature and drought from 1910 to around early 1940's. Aviation and naval technology aren't important when you are trying to feed your people. Now having said all this, can the game duplicate all these political and geographical issues? I don't think, so we have to cope the best we can. Should the game duplicate climate change and its affect on a nations social structure? Possibly. There are many factors including geography that affect the development of navies and air forces. I don't think the game can actually duplicate them. We will have to be satified with the possibilities that the game can duplicate, to make it as historically accurate as possible for us to play. Just my personal opinion. |
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Post by foxxoniusaugustus on May 16, 2023 8:27:50 GMT -6
I was somewhere reminded that China in game is stronger than historically, and is like a "what if" option, so I guess it is better to give this nation an opportunity to become stronger in air industry than historically Although I can modify the txt file myself, I think this would be a necessary adjustment for those who want to play China but cannot withstand importing aircrafts during the whole game process Somehow it is difficult to postpone the starting date of Chinese self-designed aircraft to mid-1950s all by editing the game files(zzz) Would be interesting to see a national trait for some minor regional powers to be incapable of domestically producing ships beyond KE/DD size until some trigger like defeating a major power. In the same vein like the US did to Spain and Japan to Russua I feel like my sarcasm end tag was not understood. If the goal is to make the Chinese navy perform in anything remotely resembling a historical way then the only way to do that is to simply remove them and revert their territory to neutral. Me personally, I prefer them as they are, completely a-historical and thus, playable. |
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