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Post by Fredrik W on May 27, 2023 1:12:48 GMT -6
If you want to mod in a Chinese aircraft industry, all you have to do is add a couple of names of aircraft manufacturers on the same pattern as for the other nations in the ChinaShipNames.dat file. Though that will give China the capability from the same time as everyone else.
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 27, 2023 6:49:04 GMT -6
My take on China is simply that without international assistance from a nation that she has a treaty with, China cannot win any wars. I've played at least three games as China and the only war I won was with my treaty partner Japan. This is consistent with Chinese history. During the Second Sino-Japanese War of 1931, China had help from the US and other nations providing supplies and aircraft. China does not have the funding in the game to build a big fleet and has to purchase her ships from other nations. I've found that if I start with a small fleet, within a few months my naval funds have increased and I can now start buying ships from other nations. I can also build forts and increase my dock sizes to build my own smaller ships. Reducing your technology to low and only increasing selected types to high works well. You have to get treaties with other nations and try to stay friendly with Japan, which as the years pass, is not easy. I've found that GB and France are generally no help even as treaty partners, but Germany is. As to the aircraft industries, my scheme of playing the game did get me airship bases early and then airbases which allowed me to purchases long range seaplanes for scouting. However, if Japan decides to make a surprise attack, you generally don't have enough ships to detect the attack and will suffer greatly. These are just some of my observations.
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Post by sakamotoyoshinobu on May 27, 2023 11:00:59 GMT -6
By the way most of those thing can be turned on or off in the Bnat or someother file that is locaed in the game data folder, so if you don't like some setting you can just change those value to your preference
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Post by Cuniberti on May 27, 2023 20:20:58 GMT -6
My take on China is simply that without international assistance from a nation that she has a treaty with, China cannot win any wars. I've played at least three games as China and the only war I won was with my treaty partner Japan. This is consistent with Chinese history. During the Second Sino-Japanese War of 1931, China had help from the US and other nations providing supplies and aircraft. China does not have the funding in the game to build a big fleet and has to purchase her ships from other nations. I've found that if I start with a small fleet, within a few months my naval funds have increased and I can now start buying ships from other nations. I can also build forts and increase my dock sizes to build my own smaller ships. Reducing your technology to low and only increasing selected types to high works well. You have to get treaties with other nations and try to stay friendly with Japan, which as the years pass, is not easy. I've found that GB and France are generally no help even as treaty partners, but Germany is. As to the aircraft industries, my scheme of playing the game did get me airship bases early and then airbases which allowed me to purchases long range seaplanes for scouting. However, if Japan decides to make a surprise attack, you generally don't have enough ships to detect the attack and will suffer greatly. These are just some of my observations. You need friendly tech-selling and ship-building nations, but alliances, though helpful, aren't strictly necessary, nor is *winning* as such—if you're careful and lucky, you can fight multiple powers to the point of standstill and eventual revolution. Or maybe you're the one who gets a colourful new flag—it's always a tightrope, but a steady wartime budget is China's best chance at any semblance of keeping up with tech and ships. I trust Japan in this game about as far as I can throw their heaviest ship—is it a surprise attack if you expect it? One reason I always invest in Night fighting. If you haven't already, you might consider joining the RTW Discord and submitting your ship designs for 'peer review' before building. I have found this extremely helpful in the past.
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Post by King-Salomon on May 28, 2023 1:14:59 GMT -6
wouldn't it be an (more or less) easy solution to add gameoptions? something like: "no chinese aircraft industry" check/uncheck ? - there could be other options at gamestart too which the player could choose to make the games different from each other?
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 28, 2023 6:14:39 GMT -6
My take on China is simply that without international assistance from a nation that she has a treaty with, China cannot win any wars. I've played at least three games as China and the only war I won was with my treaty partner Japan. This is consistent with Chinese history. During the Second Sino-Japanese War of 1931, China had help from the US and other nations providing supplies and aircraft. China does not have the funding in the game to build a big fleet and has to purchase her ships from other nations. I've found that if I start with a small fleet, within a few months my naval funds have increased and I can now start buying ships from other nations. I can also build forts and increase my dock sizes to build my own smaller ships. Reducing your technology to low and only increasing selected types to high works well. You have to get treaties with other nations and try to stay friendly with Japan, which as the years pass, is not easy. I've found that GB and France are generally no help even as treaty partners, but Germany is. As to the aircraft industries, my scheme of playing the game did get me airship bases early and then airbases which allowed me to purchases long range seaplanes for scouting. However, if Japan decides to make a surprise attack, you generally don't have enough ships to detect the attack and will suffer greatly. These are just some of my observations. You need friendly tech-selling and ship-building nations, but alliances, though helpful, aren't strictly necessary, nor is *winning* as such—if you're careful and lucky, you can fight multiple powers to the point of standstill and eventual revolution. Or maybe you're the one who gets a colourful new flag—it's always a tightrope, but a steady wartime budget is China's best chance at any semblance of keeping up with tech and ships. I trust Japan in this game about as far as I can throw their heaviest ship—is it a surprise attack if you expect it? One reason I always invest in Night fighting. If you haven't already, you might consider joining the RTW Discord and submitting your ship designs for 'peer review' before building. I have found this extremely helpful in the past. I agree with your ideas and that is the way I've been playing China. I have gotten as far as the 1020's before the whole situation explodes with Japan and the Dowager is overthrown and chaos rules. I will examine your suggestion about RTW Discord. Thanks for the inputs.
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 28, 2023 6:50:48 GMT -6
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 28, 2023 13:23:44 GMT -6
I read the document that I provided in the above post and decided to start a China game in 1900 based on real history. Too early to tell if it is effective, but I do have more funds and a bigger fleet so maybe this is the timeframe to begin in. Stay tuned, NEWS at 11:00.
NEWS at 11:00 - Well, the 1900 China game is going well. I beat Russia with the help of the USA. I now have two CVL's in construction, airbases with torpedo, long range patrol and fighters along with airships. I have fifteen submarines of all types and five more building. Unfortunately, my prestige is only 18, but I don't care. The game is going well.
One reminder, China is a continental power. It does not really need lots of carriers, IMHO. Land based air is vital so build lots of them and equip them with bombers, fighters, dive bombers, torpedo bombers and long range patrol. The latter is very important.
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 29, 2023 13:06:51 GMT -6
Well, my china game has reached Sept 1937. I've fought one war with the help of the USA against Japan and it ended even but I was ahead. Just a suggestion; when playing Japan during the air age, get your ships away from their coast and draw the IJN towards your coast and its airfields. It works and I lost almost no ships doing that. Here is PDF with my current fleet, submarines and air bases. I currently have one 25,500 battleship under construction.
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 30, 2023 6:53:55 GMT -6
Status Report:
I am at August 1952, I have One carrier with 76 aircraft, two battleships, one battlecruiser, two heavy cruisers with one more under construction, five light cruisers and 18 destroyers. I also have 17 submarines. I have 9 airbases and NAS’s with about 414 single engine aircraft, 371 multi-engine, 6 floatplanes on ships. I have 123 carrier capable aircraft. My prestige is 31. The game is going very well, Japan as usual is not happy, but no problem.
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Post by colprice on May 30, 2023 12:19:43 GMT -6
I managed to get into the 1940s - no wars, no serious difficulties until the UK and USA allied, then relationships with UK worsened… Resigned and fled!
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Post by Cuniberti on May 30, 2023 13:41:28 GMT -6
I managed to get into the 1940s - no wars, no serious difficulties until the UK and USA allied, then relationships with UK worsened… Resigned and fled! From the 1920 or '35 start, or earlier? I think there's a window for 1920 China to milk a weak and isolated USSR or maybe Spain or Germany, but you'd need some optimized DDs and KEs, and your resources are so miniscule you'd need a lot of reparations just to afford a treaty cruiser. Unless you enjoy asymmetric submarine and mine warfare, 'no wars' means no budget and no fleet when war does come.
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Post by Cuniberti on May 30, 2023 14:42:57 GMT -6
Status Report: I am at August 1952, I have One carrier with 76 aircraft, two battleships, one battlecruiser, two heavy cruisers with one more under construction, five light cruisers and 18 destroyers. I also have 17 submarines. I have 9 airbases and NAS’s with about 414 single engine aircraft, 371 multi-engine, 6 floatplanes on ships. I have 123 carrier capable aircraft. My prestige is 31. The game is going very well, Japan as usual is not happy, but no problem. I'm enjoying these updates. Out of curiosity, are you still Qing or did you have a revolution? My impression of these numbers is that you have WAY too many land-based aircraft and far too few floatplanes and carrier aircraft. I like to keep one large air group at Shanghai, a small number of patrol aircraft everywhere else, using mostly CVLs for combat air patrol over capital ships, with floatplanes on nearly every battleship and any cruiser expected to operate independently, as well as dispersed on some small specialized KEs and DDs. I can't say I've had any success offensively with Chinese CVs—I just cram them full of fighters so I can have Maximum CAP over my fast surface squadrons, which tend to spend a lot of time running back to port under heavy air attack. You'll need more than one CV or you're in for a world of hurt outside your coastal air cover.
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 30, 2023 15:18:46 GMT -6
Status Report: I am at August 1952, I have One carrier with 76 aircraft, two battleships, one battlecruiser, two heavy cruisers with one more under construction, five light cruisers and 18 destroyers. I also have 17 submarines. I have 9 airbases and NAS’s with about 414 single engine aircraft, 371 multi-engine, 6 floatplanes on ships. I have 123 carrier capable aircraft. My prestige is 31. The game is going very well, Japan as usual is not happy, but no problem. I'm enjoying these updates. Out of curiosity, are you still Qing or did you have a revolution? My impression of these numbers is that you have WAY too many land-based aircraft and far too few floatplanes and carrier aircraft. I like to keep one large air group at Shanghai, a small number of patrol aircraft everywhere else, using mostly CVLs for combat air patrol over capital ships, with floatplanes on nearly every battleship and any cruiser expected to operate independently, as well as dispersed on some small specialized KEs and DDs. I can't say I've had any success offensively with Chinese CVs—I just cram them full of fighters so I can have Maximum CAP over my fast surface squadrons, which tend to spend a lot of time running back to port under heavy air attack. You'll need more than one CV or you're in for a world of hurt outside your coastal air cover. I am glad you are enjoying them. I don't remember, but I think the revolt occurred and I sort of stayed out of it.
As to the idea that I have too many land based aircraft, keep in mind, that China is not a maritime power, but a continental power. I don't really need many carriers either light or fleet carriers. I just fought another war with Japan... go figure. I had the help of the USA, France and Russia. The IJA invaded Shanghai, we won the war and I got Shanghai back. The one carrier did not prove useful and in fact with the narrowness of the East China Sea by the time it sailed it was almost sunk. It's only 489 miles from Shanghai to Nagasaki, Japan on the island of Kumamoto. Land based aircraft with ranges of about 200-250 miles can cover the coast very well. I lik patrol bombers since they are better armed and can fly at higher altitudes and have longer ranges. I moved mhy lone carrier to SE Asia and will put my new one in the same location. Narrow seas are very dangerous to carriers, ask the British about the Med.
Just my thoughts.
Update: I am now at April 1958. I have light jet fighters, Heavy jet fighters and jet attack aircraft. I have three missile submarines, I am currently building a supercarrier next. Here is the design:
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Post by Cuniberti on May 31, 2023 5:33:58 GMT -6
I'm really out of my depth when it comes to carrier design but it looks nifty, which is always an important criterion. I've reached 1921 in my 1890 campaign. The Almanac may rate my technical development as Backward, but I got 1500t DDs early and I'm the first to develop aircraft catapults. Other than refitting some Bs I'll wait for foreign yards to catch with my catapult CL scout design, my coastal recon needs are already pretty well served by these lil guys
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