Post by janxol on May 26, 2023 8:19:45 GMT -6
An incredibly annoying mechanic. It does stem from a sensible and real engineering problem, but the way its currently implemented seems very much off.
From what i can gather the issue/mechanic of no A/Y triples appears when the following occurs:
A. Ship faster than 18 knots
B. Ship has TPS2+
C. Improved hull design methods is not researched.
This doesnt seem right. The tech that gets rid of the issue is a late 1930s tech, yet there were plenty of ships with triple turrets, more than 18 knots of speed and TPS advanced enough to be considered TPS2 in-game. While this comparison is somewhat difficult to make, TPS2 is a 1909 tech. So here's some examples of ships which were built with triples after 1909, but before 1930s and were faster than 18 knots:
Italian Dreadnoughts:
Dante Alighieri
Conte di Cavour class
Andrea Doria
Russian dreadnoughts with the gangut-style layout (which is all of them).
American standards:
New Mexico-class among others
These were all not very fast, but definitely faster than 18 knots, speeds in range of 21 knots.
Konigsberg-class (1927) Triples A-V/X-Y Definitely faster than 18 knots. While its difficult to compare TPS, she did have anti-torpedo and anti-collision bulkheads. Also note that the rear turrets were off-center, so it was certainly somwhat narrow for them.
Deutschland class
Treaty battleships: Nelson and Dunkerque
Some more I dont feel the need to list.
As such, I would propose not the removal, but adjustment of the "hull too narrow" mechanic. Some of my proposed solutions (not necessarily all of them at once):
1. Increase the minimum speed where it becomes a problem
2. Move the problem to start with TPS 3 instead of TPS 2 Judging my weight difference TPS3 is much more complex and reasonably assuming uses more space. The Tech will also appear early enough to cause pensacola layout.
3. Add breakpoints to exisiting techs or years so that it gradually lifts the speed where issues start to occur, rather than waiting till 1930s to have it all lifted at once.
4. Tie the limitation not just to speed and TPS but also gun caliber and layout (relax requirements for all forward and low caliber)
5. Replace the "you cannot build this" with "you get a penalty because theres not enough space".
I cant say how difficult or easy these would be to make, but personally i would be a fan of number 2, possibly combined with gradual relaxation or reliefs for low caliber and all forward.
From what i can gather the issue/mechanic of no A/Y triples appears when the following occurs:
A. Ship faster than 18 knots
B. Ship has TPS2+
C. Improved hull design methods is not researched.
This doesnt seem right. The tech that gets rid of the issue is a late 1930s tech, yet there were plenty of ships with triple turrets, more than 18 knots of speed and TPS advanced enough to be considered TPS2 in-game. While this comparison is somewhat difficult to make, TPS2 is a 1909 tech. So here's some examples of ships which were built with triples after 1909, but before 1930s and were faster than 18 knots:
Italian Dreadnoughts:
Dante Alighieri
Conte di Cavour class
Andrea Doria
Russian dreadnoughts with the gangut-style layout (which is all of them).
American standards:
New Mexico-class among others
These were all not very fast, but definitely faster than 18 knots, speeds in range of 21 knots.
Konigsberg-class (1927) Triples A-V/X-Y Definitely faster than 18 knots. While its difficult to compare TPS, she did have anti-torpedo and anti-collision bulkheads. Also note that the rear turrets were off-center, so it was certainly somwhat narrow for them.
Deutschland class
Treaty battleships: Nelson and Dunkerque
Some more I dont feel the need to list.
As such, I would propose not the removal, but adjustment of the "hull too narrow" mechanic. Some of my proposed solutions (not necessarily all of them at once):
1. Increase the minimum speed where it becomes a problem
2. Move the problem to start with TPS 3 instead of TPS 2 Judging my weight difference TPS3 is much more complex and reasonably assuming uses more space. The Tech will also appear early enough to cause pensacola layout.
3. Add breakpoints to exisiting techs or years so that it gradually lifts the speed where issues start to occur, rather than waiting till 1930s to have it all lifted at once.
4. Tie the limitation not just to speed and TPS but also gun caliber and layout (relax requirements for all forward and low caliber)
5. Replace the "you cannot build this" with "you get a penalty because theres not enough space".
I cant say how difficult or easy these would be to make, but personally i would be a fan of number 2, possibly combined with gradual relaxation or reliefs for low caliber and all forward.
