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Post by axe99 on Aug 30, 2016 16:54:55 GMT -6
Sounds excellent .
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Post by tortugapower on Aug 30, 2016 20:20:46 GMT -6
Very interesting, I may have to dabble in this myself.
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Post by jwsmith26 on Aug 30, 2016 22:20:47 GMT -6
Continuing my report on the varied tech option, I just fought another capital ship battle and I am indeed having major issues with my turrets. Playing as the Germans fighting the Japanese I fought a large capital ship battle in 1926. My scouting force fought most of the battle alone while my main force caught up. These three battlecruisers each had 3 triple turrets for a total of twenty-seven guns. For most of the battle I had no more than 5 turrets operational between the three ships at any one time. Every time I examined the division there would be a different set of turrets disabled but, almost always, 12 to 15 guns were unavailable. This started the moment one of the ships opened fire on the enemy and well before any of the ships took any hits. Most of the time it seemed that a turret was out for no more than about 3 or 4 turns, often it was disabled for just 1 or 2 turns and then became operational again. I've included a ship's log for one of the BCs, the Graf Spee, below. Note that the log does not record when a turret becomes disabled, but does record when the turret becomes operational again. There were no turret failures at all before engaging the enemy at 3:16. After opening fire the Graf Spee was involved in battle for 45 minutes with almost constant turret failures before sustaining her first hit. (After that things got really ugly, especially for her unarmored secondary battery crews - lesson learned). So the varied tech option has proven quite interesting. The constant turret failure has prevented me from achieving truly decisive battle victories, which in turn has kept my prestige total subpar because I typically depend on winning major victories to garner prestige. I may keep the game going long enough to rebuild my triple turret guns down to double turrets to see if that helps things. Overall it has been quite interesting facing this new unexpected challenge. I didn't really notice any other out of the ordinary tech related events. They may have been too subtle to notice or I wasn't looking at the right things. One thing is for sure, I'll definitely be using the varied tech option again.
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Post by brucesim2003 on Aug 31, 2016 2:26:04 GMT -6
I don't think the varied tech is the cause of the turret problems. I've noticed during a game without varied tech even twin turret jams have gone up quite radically. I had one ship (4x twin turrets) have three turrets out for the majority of a battle. It seems to have started since 1.33.
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Post by jwsmith26 on Aug 31, 2016 9:11:06 GMT -6
Well, dang. Now I'm going to have to test without varied tech.
Brucesim, did you happen to look at your ship log when this happened? Did it display rapid turret failures and repairs similar to what I was experiencing?
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Post by zardoz on Aug 31, 2016 9:32:49 GMT -6
I have also the impression that turret malfunctions are now more often; I noticed this just at the beginning of a game and assumed that unreliability of turrets at the beginning should be simulated. I had the feeling that at lest 1/3 of all turrets is disabled, some times all turrets of a ship.
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Post by Fredrik W on Aug 31, 2016 10:55:02 GMT -6
I don't think the varied tech is the cause of the turret problems. I've noticed during a game without varied tech even twin turret jams have gone up quite radically. I had one ship (4x twin turrets) have three turrets out for the majority of a battle. It seems to have started since 1.33. The turret jam routines were changed to accommodate varied tech. It may be that "regular" turret jams have inadvertently become more common. I'll take a look at that. Thanks!
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Post by jwsmith26 on Aug 31, 2016 14:39:19 GMT -6
I just ran another test in which I reloaded a game that I started under v1.32, so without varied tech. I reloaded the game after installing v1.33b2. I was playing as Spain and pushed my nation into a war with Italy.
In the first encounter, a fleet battle, I saw turret failures at the same level as I saw with the varied tech game I was playing. Of the 5 battlecruisers initially involved with the enemy none entered the encounter with turrets disabled. Within the first few minutes of the initial shots fired, two turrets out of five on the first two engaged ships became disabled (no hits had been scored on these ships). When the second division of 3 BCs engaged, they too began experiencing failures as well. These five ships had a mix of double and triple turrets and the failures seemed to affect both types equally.
Over the course of the next 30 minutes I checked the ships each turn. The number of turrets out of action (excluding turrets destroyed by enemy fire) typically ranged between 30% and 50% each turn, though a different set of turrets was affected each turn. This is quite a bit higher failure rate than I have experienced in earlier games, so it does appear, from this rather thin test, that this is an issue that is not necessarily caused by the varied tech option.
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Post by galagagalaxian on Sept 3, 2016 9:06:22 GMT -6
The turret jam routines were changed to accommodate varied tech. It may be that "regular" turret jams have inadvertently become more common. I'll take a look at that. Thanks! Would it be spoiling things if you told us some of the random variances that can pop up on varied tech and what their effects are? EG: Inefficient multi-gun turrets apparently means more jams and mechanical problems (I would've thought it meant slower RoF for some reason). Are we always alerted to problems like jwsmith's turrets, or can they slip by without R&D noticing?
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Post by galagagalaxian on Sept 3, 2016 23:30:48 GMT -6
Now that the turret jam bug is (hopefully) fixed in the latest beta, I'm curious as to whether or not your inefficient turrets continue to be plagued with difficulty, jwsmith.
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Post by klavohunter on Sept 4, 2016 14:39:26 GMT -6
I will note that Cross Deck Firing turrets currently do not display their extra arc. Will report back if USS North Carolina's F and K turrets fire across the deck when she's built and sees battle.
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Post by tbr on Sept 4, 2016 15:06:00 GMT -6
You can get the CDF arcs to display if you save and reload the design. I will note that Cross Deck Firing turrets currently do not display their extra arc. Will report back if USS North Carolina's F and K turrets fire across the deck when she's built and sees battle.
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Post by jwsmith26 on Sept 6, 2016 11:47:38 GMT -6
Now that the turret jam bug is (hopefully) fixed in the latest beta, I'm curious as to whether or not your inefficient turrets continue to be plagued with difficulty, jwsmith. I am planning to get back to that game and get myself into another war to test the turrets. Unfortunately I've gotten involved in another project that has kept me away form gaming for a few days. I'll definitely get back to it soon.
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Post by jwsmith26 on Sept 8, 2016 18:22:53 GMT -6
Now that the turret jam bug is (hopefully) fixed in the latest beta, I'm curious as to whether or not your inefficient turrets continue to be plagued with difficulty, jwsmith. I finally got back to the game to test this further. After installing v1.33b3 I'm happy to report that the rate of turret failures seem to be back to normal. Sometimes in examining the ship's log it is not obvious what caused a turret to become disabled but the vast majority I examined were disabled due to enemy gunfire. A simple visual examination of the ships is sufficient to see that things are quite different after this change. In v1.33b2 I seldom saw a single capital ship that did not have at least one turret disabled, often 3 were disabled. Now I see maybe 1 turret disabled per division and only after they've come under enemy fire. I have now played this same game (as Germans) through three update versions after selecting varied tech but I'm afraid I'm at a loss to describe any obvious results of selecting the varied technology option. The only really unusual event was the warning I received about my scientists not believing that multi-gun turrets were a wise path to pursue. I am now at 1930 in the game and I've had improved triple turrets for probably 10 years so I suspect any bad things that would have arisen from my scientist's skepticism have now been overcome. I really didn't see any other anomalous behavior. I'll try again with varied tech and see what happens when I not going through so many updates and without the turret bug.
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Post by joebob73 on Sept 8, 2016 19:32:20 GMT -6
Just finished a playthrough as Japan, and the tech variation I got was "Our torpedoes seem to be of dubious value at long ranges". That was a tough one, because half my torpedoes seemed to malfunction at ranges longer than about 1km. Had a really tough time getting guns of any decent caliber as well; went all the way to 1914 before getting a single gun above 12", and that from a tech sale from Britain, who had managed to get quality 0 16" guns and sold them to me for incredibly cheap. It actually felt kind of historical, having to order all of my capital ships beyond the first few from Britain and the USA. I did manage to start the dreadnought race though, getting both main battery wing turrets and 3 centerline in 1903.
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