AAR for in progress US playthrough

[chris19delta]

I find myself placed in command of a fleet where the only thing worse than its current condition is the new construction currently underway. In the next few days I shall annoy a number of members of Congress and much of the Navy Establishment, but I believe that’s what President McKinley intended when he appointed me Secretary of the Navy.

-Adm Chris19delta

January 1900



Legacy fleet it’s pretty standard for the US, 17kt Illinois class Bs , useless 20kt 6” New York Class CAs , 4” 21 kt San Francisco CLs. Fortunately, I have solid 23kt 9” CAs in the Frederick class,but they’re the one bright spot.

[chris19delta]

The Nevadas were the worst of the new construction and even though their construction was well advanced their 16 knot top speed would be a liability, both were canceled.
Also under construction were a pair of Hurons, 13400 ton 23 knot 10" heavy armored cruisers, and while I needed CAs badly they were just too expensive and tied up too much of my budget which would be required for my Juneau class CLs. USS Huron was retained but the 2nd ship of the class was scrapped. 

Additionally, there were a number of unremarkable small 5" CLs under construction which were scrapped as well for not fitting in with my cruiser doctrine. These were replaced with 2 batches of 3 Juneau class CLs

My preference is for large, fast 6" CLs as they have very long useful lives. With mid life refits they are capable of frontline service into the 1920s. I won't consider them obsolete until I have dual/triple turret CLs in service. From experience in other playthroughs, they can kill any single CL, usually kill 2 CLs, and with luck can take down a smaller CA. Undoubtedly large light cruisers like this are very expensive, but personally I think they have solid ROI.

[bramborough]

I like that Juneau. Indeed it should catch and wreck pretty much any other CL (or pair of CL's) it meets. The main drawback is the cost of course; one could acquire 3x more-conventional (but still good) legacy/early CL's for the price of 2 of these. BUT...with the way RTW generates cruiser and raider-intercept actions (almost always 1v1 or 1v2), I don't think that's really a big deal. A secondary factor, however, is the strategic value; that's a pretty expensive 3 points. With ships like these, however, cruiser-kill VP's will probably dwarf the 150-200ish VP-per-turn of blockade (or being blockaded...unlikely in the case of US).

Is this the final design as saved/built? I do notice that there's 175 unused weight remaining; the tonnage could probably have been dialed back to 7800 or so to save a few bucks, while still leaving plenty of room for later FC upgrades.

[chris19delta]

Dec 9, 2017 12:31:09 GMT -6 bramborough said:

I like that Juneau. Indeed it should catch and wreck pretty much any other CL (or pair of CL's) it meets. The main drawback is the cost of course; one could acquire 3x more-conventional (but still good) legacy/early CL's for the price of 2 of these. BUT...with the way RTW generates cruiser and raider-intercept actions (almost always 1v1 or 1v2), I don't think that's really a big deal. A secondary factor, however, is the strategic value; that's a pretty expensive 3 points. With ships like these, however, cruiser-kill VP's will probably dwarf the 150-200ish VP-per-turn of blockade (or being blockaded...unlikely in the case of US).

Is this the final design as saved/built? I do notice that there's 175 unused weight remaining; the tonnage could probably have been dialed back to 7800 or so to save a few bucks, while still leaving plenty of room for later FC upgrades.

Yes the excess displacement is intentional, the cost difference between 7800 and 8k was minimal and I wanted to ensure there was displacement available to receive a B and X turret in refit when they become available. I view my large light cruisers as a long term investment they will see frontline service for the majority of the game, and will remain relevant even after that in secondary rolls, their last refit (late 20s/early 30s) for example will be new long range machinery and they will be excellent (if expensive) trade protection cruisers and raiders still capable of killing anything except an equally expensive cruiser.

[chris19delta]

Had to retype this 3x after losing my progress, so this version is much less refined than what I'd initially intended to write due to a lack of patience 

September 1902 War Declared

Yesterday, September 9, 1941 - a date which will live in infamy - the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval forces of the Empire of Japan.

10/15 Night Action off Alaska

USS Frederick Engages Japanese force initially identified as 3+ CA with escorts raiding Alaskan coast. SIGINT later confirms Enemy force 2 CA 1 CL 1 DD. Results of action USS Frederick out of action for 1 months with heavy damage, 1 Japanese CA heavily damaged 1 Japanese CA and 1 DD sunk.

Notes from post action survey of USS Frederick by dockyard personnel Anchorage Alaska. Belt armor of US CAs appears to be sufficient to be keep out Jap medium caliber shell at all ranges. As the Action was fought at short, almost hull to hull at times, ranges no comment can be made on the efficacy of the armored deck. Other than splinter penetration of the Belt Extended, all damage to USS Frederick was to unarmored spaced.


11/8/1902 Convoy action off Alaska

23:20 USS Frederick sights Jap BB, tentatively identified as Fuso class. USS Frederick successfully leads enemy away from the convoy.



Action of 12/11/1902

Cl Denver intercepts Jap raider. South American West coast. 3000 ton Naniwa class has no chance vs a Juneau class CL and is rapidly run down and sunk.


Action 2/5/1903

South of Miami USS Montana vs Mikasa class. Montana damages Mikasa which uses her higher speed to disengage.


Action 4/8/1903

USS Huron USS Frederic vicinity Tsugaru Straits. Kasuga class CA rapidly set on fire and sunk.


Action 4/8/1093

USS Huron USS Frederic again patrolling approaches to Tsugaru Straits, Kasuga class CA sighted run down and sunk in night action.


Action 7/25/1903

CRUDIV1 USS Chattanooga and USS Juneau conduct raid vicinity Tsushima, sink misc merchant vessels.


Action 10/18/190

Inconclusive fleet action, due to poor speed, and less than reliable engines the Japanese fleet can easily dictate the range of the engagement, prevent the US Pacific Fleet from achieving a tactically advantageous position and then breaking contact at will. 2 Jap DDs sunk.


Action 1/1/1904

CRUDIV 1 operating west of Korea encounters Jap DDs, sinks 1, 1 escapes as night falls.


Action 2/27/1904

US Pacific Fleet operating west of Korea encounters elements of enemy battle fleet with DDs and AMC screening. Action devolves into stern chase. AMC suffers engine casualty and loses speed, overtaken and sunk. Jap capital ships and remaining escorts disengage.

Action 3/13/1904

CRUDIV 1 operating west of Korea encounters Jap DDs, sinks 1 in night action

Action 4/25/1904

USS Frederick USS Galveston patrolling approaches to Tsugaru Straits encounter 2 Jap DDs, sink same in short action.

Action 6/9/1904

Convoy escorted by USS New York, USS Pittsburgh attacked by 2 DDs which are sunk for no loss.


Action 8/24/1904

US Pacific Fleet operating near Nakadori Island encounters elements of enemy battle fleet, Stern chase ensues, after nightfall Jap CA reduces speed either due to an engine casualty or in an attempt to set up for night torpedo attacks, is cut off from Jap main body by USS Frederick and sunk by BATDIV1 and BATDIV5. Confused night action off Sasebo ensues with 1 jap DD and 1 AMC sunk. Michigan strikes a mine but DC teams control flooding, but due to lack of basing facilities in the region is interned in a neutral port.

Action 9/17/1904

USS Pittsburgh operating near the Philippines encounters and sinks Naniwa class CL


Action 1/17/1905

USS Galveston encounters Jap raider N Pacific, sinks 1 Yaeyama class CL


Action 2/18/1905

USS Frederick encounters convoy escorted by B Asahi and 3 DD. The Jap B declines night action vs USS Frederick, which makes a clean sweep of the convoy and remaining escorts.


Battle of the Philippines (Action 3/23/1905)

2 Aashi class Bs attack convoy escorted by USS Illinois and USS Pittsburgh, the Japanese Bs are reluctant to engage the single US BB and are initially driven away from the convoy. However, they use their superior speed to get around USS Illinois and reengage the convoy sinking 1 TR before USS Illinois can rejoin the fight. The Jap Bs again attempt to disengage and a stern chase develops, during which both Jap Bs are hit by torpedoes from USS Illinois and sunk, the second being finished off by USS Illinois’s secondary battery.



Action 7/30/1905

USS Flint makes clean sweep of Jap convoy south of Japan



Japan Surrenders!

Unrest lead to the collapse of the Japanese government, the Prime Minister is deposed and the new Provisional Government accepts a humiliating peace treaty, ceding their holdings in Korea to America as well as the battleship Mikasa) as reparations (shortly thereafter expended as a target while testing new 1 quality 12” guns.

[rockmedic109]

In my last game I made a Legacy class of British CL very similar to these. High speed and bristling with rapid fire 6" guns, they were cruiser wreckers. If they could survive long enough to get into short-medium range with an AC, they could even battle them. They formed the base of my empire protection as I fitted them out as Colonial Cruisers from the start. They were a little slow at end game but still viable in the colonies. I only created a couple of later CLs, special fleet scouts that were faster and loaded with torp emplacements {32 tubes I think} and mines.

[chris19delta]

Some lessons were learned and they will inform future doctrine, research priorities, and ship design. I've intentionally at times made a point of drawing wrong, or at least not the historical conclusion, from each of these bullet points most of which IIRC were brought up in some form after the Ruso Japanese war.



Lessons learned from the war with Japan

• A speed advantage is required to force a decisive engagement. Time and again during the war the Japanese fleet would decline an even odds engagement (or even engagements where they had numerical advantage) throughout the war only 2 Japanese battleships were sunk, both my torpedoes. Future Battleline speed will be 20+ knots
   sufficient to ensure a decisive speed advantage for the foreseeable future.
• 2x2 12” guns do not provide sufficient volume of fire as to prove decisive, and 6 and 7 inch secondary batteries did not make much if any impression on enemy capital ships even in closely fought engagements. Future US battleships will be designed so as to carry a 11-inch intermediate battery.
• In the one battleship engagement were we successfully able to bring the Japanese fleet into close action all battleship kills were accomplished following a torpedo hit. We must develop effective torpedo protection systems for our capital ships. Additionally, advances in projectile design and gunnery control are required so that engagements may be decisively prosecuted outside torpedo range. Finally, due to the devastating impact of these weapons new battleships shall carry 2 pair of broadside tubes.
  
  

[chris19delta]

These lessons lead to the construction of 3 new classes of battleship, including the first all big gun battleship the Connecticut class.

The 2 pre-connecticut type battleship classes developed, the New Jersey and Delaware featured very heavy secondary batteries and were far superior to any other B  in the world and arguably the equal of some of the smaller Connecticut type battleships being produced by other powers. (for the duration of the AAR since in this world the Connecticut was the 1st all big gun battleship the terms dreadnought and pre-dreadnought will be replaced with Connecticut and pre-Connecticut)

[garrisonchisholm]

Dec 9, 2017 14:40:07 GMT -6 chris19delta said:

Had to retype this 3x after losing my progress, so this version is much less refined than what I'd initially intended to write due to a lack of patience 

I am delighted to see a new voice begin an AAR-  welcome!  It was your line above which caught my eye however.  I started a thread addressing writing (as far as forums for this AAR at least), which you may discover valid guidance within.  (especially my initial point 5!)

nws-online.proboards.com/thread/1177/aar-writing

Good luck, I am sure you will refine your style as you go, but don't fret if things change-  people here value content and relish analysis (I could tag folks, but I would miss someone and there are easily 5 voices which excel at this), so include those and keep to it!  *salute!*

[chris19delta]

Dec 9, 2017 15:53:20 GMT -6 garrisonchisholm said:

Dec 9, 2017 14:40:07 GMT -6 chris19delta said:

Had to retype this 3x after losing my progress, so this version is much less refined than what I'd initially intended to write due to a lack of patience 

I am delighted to see a new voice begin an AAR-  welcome!  It was your line above which caught my eye however.  I started a thread addressing writing (as far as forums for this AAR at least), which you may discover valid guidance within.  (especially my initial point 5!)

nws-online.proboards.com/thread/1177/aar-writing

Good luck, I am sure you will refine your style as you go, but don't fret if things change-  people here value content and relish analysis (I could tag folks, but I would miss someone and there are easily 5 voices which excel at this), so include those and keep to it!  *salute!*

What was happening was I'd go to highlight some text, the browser tab would be a grey background with "drag to insert files" or something like that and no way to click back to the post. 

[chris19delta]

War with Japan again, here's action to current date in game, I'll post more along with ship pics later. Japan's been notably reluctant to engage especially after the loss of 3 battlecruisers so not too much action so far. 

Apr 1919 Japan Declares War


Tensions with Japan had been elevated in the 1910s, which along with resentment of the embarrassing treaty ending the First Japanese American War lead to a groundswell of nationalism in Japan. This culminated in 1917 in the formation of a government from a coalition of nationalist parties with a common platform of aggressive rearmament and erasing the shame of the first war. Japan intended on fielding a fleet of 8 battleships and 8 battlecruisers by 1920, bringing them to a rough numerical parity with the US fleet. However, tensions over a colonial crisis escalated resulting in a premature start to the war, with much of the Japanese new construction still on the slips. USS Colorado, an elderly Connecticut class battleship, flagship of the Far East Fleet, along with a number of cruisers must hold the line in northeast Asia, until the powerful US Pacific Fleet can transit the Pacific to bring the fight to Japan.

Action of 5/29/1919


CRUDIV6 (USS Milwaukee, USS Fresno) engage Jap convoy of 7 transports escorted by 3 DDs North of Okinawa. All Jap ships sunk.

Action of 6/13/1919

CRUDIV6 engages Jap convoy of 7 transports escorted by 6 DDs North of Okinawa. 5 DDs 7 TR sunk, no damage so ships of CRUDIV6.

Action of 8/4/1919


CRUDIV1 (USS Lousiville, USS Seattle) and CRUDIV3 (USS Columbia, USS Des Moines) conduct offensive patrol off Sasebo, sinking CL Chiyoda and 2 transports. No damage to US ships.

October 1919

SSM S-7 Torpedoes and sinks Jap BC Tsukuba.

Battle of Sasebo (Action of 11/19/1919)


Off Sakhalin Peninsula USS San Juan intercepts Jap raider, Yaeyama Class CL, sinks same.

Action of 1/3/1920


In a pre-dawn action USS Constitution and USS Congress encounter 2 Jap BCs at 0345 local time. Action commenced at 0350 with both US BCs engaging Haruna at <5000 yards. USS Constitution and USS Congress both achieved 1st salvo straddles on Haruna, which is aflame and drifting after the second US salvo. On the 3rd salvo a 126” shell from Constitution penetrated Haruna’s 9” belt detonating her forward magazine. Only 3 survivors were recovered from Haruna. Fires shifted to BC Mimasaka at a range of 7000 yards, both US battlecruisers again achieve first salvo straddles. After a 20-minute fight Mimasaka is disabled and finished off by a pair of torpedoes from the light cruiser USS Columbia. SCOUTDIV1 resumes course WNW, encounters a 3rd Jap BC, Ikoma, which is finished off by torpedoes from USS Columbia after a 20-minute fight. afterwards SCOUTDIV1 conducts offensive cruise towards Sasebo sinking 2 transports and destroying a 6” shore battery. Throughout the engagements US crews exhibited a consistently high standard of gunnery, achieving 182 main battery hits vs 16 Japanese main battery hits. What hits the Japanese did achieve were for the most part ineffective, the 12” standard belt of American battlecruisers able to resist Japanese 12” AP at any range, while the 8-9” belts of the Japanese battlecruiser proved to be completely insufficient versus the American 16” AP rounds.

Analysis of War to Date

The result of the war is at this point a foregone conclusion, even delaying the start of the war so that they fielded their intended 8/8 fleet would not have altered this. Japanese capital ships are materially inferior to equivalent US ships. The majority of Japanese capital ships are armed with 12” guns and their fire control is markedly inferior. As demonstrated at the Battle of Sasebo, were poor Japanese gunnery resulted in only 16 main battery hits from 3 battlecruisers mounting 10-12 guns apiece, even at engagement ranges under 10000 yards. To make matters worse when they did hit, Japanese 12” AP was insufficient to penetrate the 12” belt or 2.5” armored deck of the American ships, the only damage done to US ships was from hits to unarmored spaces. While the 14” gunned ships under construction as part of the 8/8 Plan would be capable of penetrating the belts of US BCs at close range, they would be incapable of penetrating the belts of modern US battleships. Despite this inevitability of a defeat, and a marked reluctance to risk surviving capital ships, Japan shows no interest in a negotiated settlement. This will force us to conduct an aggressive blockade, and large scale counter raider operations to run down Japanese raiders. As such it is likely that the Pacific Fleet will be reduced in strength to meet commitments elsewhere in the world.

[bramborough]

I guess nothing interesting happened during 1905-1919?

[chris19delta]

Dec 11, 2017 10:59:05 GMT -6 bramborough said:

I guess nothing interesting happened during 1905-1919?

Nothing, a couple war scares, in that period (UK and Russia) but they failed to escalate to the point war was declared. When I get home I'm going to edit the 2nd Japanese War post to include pics of the relevant classes. At the end of the play through I'm planning on coming back and doing a post covering warship design 1900-1925 that should fill in the 1905-1919 gap adequately. 

[chris19delta]

Action 4/25/1920

USS Lexington, USS Saratoga steaming vicinity Tsugaru Straits sight two large contacts WNW transiting the strait. turns towards contact and prepares for action. Contacts identified as one Kurama (29000 Tons 10-12” guns 8.5” belt) and one Haruna Class (39700 tons, 12-12” guns 9” belt). Jap ships turn SSE to unmask aft guns, SCOUTDIV1 steers SW to avoid letting the Jap BCs cross their T. 0214Z, Japanese BCs open fire on the light cruiser USS Columbia at about 20000 yards, Jap gunnery is predictably poor, no hits scored. CRUDIV3 turns away and maneuvers to assumes station on SCOUTDIV1’s unengaged side as SCOUTDIV1 takes Japanese BCs under fire at 0222Z, Lexington straddles the lead Japanese BC as she is executing a turn to starboard to assume a course of 180, a hit from Lexington’s 15” guns knocks out the Haruna Class’s aft turret. 0230Z Japanese squadron shifts fire to SCOUTDIV1. 0236 Japanese score their first hit on Lexington, striking her secondary battery, knocking out a 5” gun. The lead Japanese ship, the Haruna Class has by now taken a number of serious hits and is losing speed and falling out of line. Haruna class attempts to disengage to NE, while Karama class attempts to reenter the straits to the west. SCOUTDIV1 steers north placing themselves between the two Japanese ships. Additional hits to the Haruna class damage her machinery and she loses way. CRUDIV3 detached to finish her with torpedoes, SCOUDIV1 turns WSW to close remaining Jap BC. Range closes to 10000 yards, immediately after a straddle from Saratoga, a flash is observed traveling along the Karuna class’s (later identified as IJN Kongo) casemate deck, followed shortly by a massive explosion, it can be assumed that a 15” round penetrated Kongo’s casemate armor igniting ready use ammunition creating a flash fire detonating ready use ammo at other guns, followed by igniting the ships magazines. Japanese gunnery was no better than in previous engagements, scoring only 11 main battery hits, vs 70 for the US battlecruisers, inflicting only minor damage on the American ships. The excessively heavy secondary batteries on the Japanese ships (16-6” on the Karuma class, 24-5” on the Haruna) has once again proved to be wasted displacement which would have been better used to allow the Japanese battlecruisers to ship 14” guns.

April 1920 Unconditional Surrender!

13 months of war, of unmitigated defeat, was too much for Japan to bear. The Prime Minister, Hideki Tojo, is dead reportedly shot by a member of the Imperial bodyguard. Japan cedes Formosa, and turns over the battleship Fuso as reparations. Fuso being promptly scraped as unsuitable for active service, her guns and armor too light to face a modern European battleship.





Oct22 War Germany.



10/15/1922



Off Manilla USS Constellation sights German Squadron, turns NW and makes revolutions for 27 knots to close target. German force determined to consist of 2 CL 4 DD. German squadron turns to disengage to west. Max speed of the German CLs is 20 knots, 7 knots slower than the US BC, they are rapidly overtaken one CL 1 DD sunk the rest of the ships scatter to the south, Constellation pursues. She runs down the 2 remaining DDs and begins a stern chase on the last CL who has a sizeable lead by now. Taking advantage of her 7 knot speed advantage she places herself so that the last German CL is trapped between her and the shore before closing and sinking it.



11/24/1922

USS Seattle conducts cruise north of Danzig. Encounters German squadron consisting of 4 CL, 2 DDs. Sinks 2 CLs badly damages another, and inflicts heavy damage on 2 dds before breaking contact when enemy heavy forces sighted.

1/23/1923

USS Constellation encounters and sinks raider west of Borneo.



6/5/1923

USS flint sinks German raider north of Cuba.



July 1923 Peace

Negotiated peace, 6 pts, US gains Cameroon, Haiti, Tanganyika



October 1924 War with Russia!



Battle of Irbe Strait 11/5/1924

10 Sighting: Enemy 3 light cruisers fleeing nne BATDIV 3, BATDIV 7 with escorts pursue.

30 Sighting 4 enemy BCs in 2 columns north. BATDIV 3, BATDIV 7 turn to 300 to unmask aft guns, Russian BCs turn away. BATDIV 3, BATDIV 7 turn to 045.

35 Multiple hits observed on lead ship of southern Russian BC division. Russian BCs appear to be conducting delaying action, not attempting to break contact with American battle line. CIC Baltic Fleet concerned the entire Russian Imperial Baltic Fleet is at sea.

48 2 unknown sightings nw, CIC Baltic Fleet concerned that the remainder of the Russian fleet is joining the Russian BC squadron turns to 090

50 New contacts identified as 3+ Russian BB. US Baltic Fleet conducts battle turn to port coming to 270.

69 Hits from USS Washington observed on Dvendtsat Apostolov’s L turret, initiating a magazine explosion, Dvendtsat Apostolov breaks in half between her funnels and sinks instantly.

70 US Baltic Fleet turns to 315. Russian fleet appears to be attempting to with draw to Kronshtadt.

80 Russian BCs observed to be in poor condition, Baltic Fleet turns to 000 and attempts to gain position between Russian fleet and Kronshtadt.

111 Russian DDs begin torpedo attack. Rapidly sunk or driven off by a combination of fires from escorting CLs and BB secondary battery fire.

130 Borodino Class BB disabled by fires from BATDIV3, finished off by torpedoes from escorting cruisers.

162 BB Retvizan struck by rounds from USS South Carolina on Y turret resulting in magazine explosion.

165 Visibility worsening due to weather, fleet turns SE to regain contact with Russian fleet.

183 Borodino class BB stuck aft by salvo from California, X turret seen to explode, when smoke clears the Russian ship is gone.

196 Fokshani class BC disabled by gunfire from BATDIV3, BATDIV7 sunk by torpedoes fired by USS South Carolina.

210 CIC Baltic Fleet determines further pursuit unlikely to gain favorable results. Fleet turns to 270 reduces speed to 16 knots begins after action repairs.

Russia lost 3 BBs, 2 BCs and 4 DDs. With heavy damage to a further 2 BCs. Russian gunnery was better than that observed in the past from the Japanese, with them scoring 43 heavy caliber hits. However, American gunnery was far superior with 410 main battery hits. The Russians ship guns heavy enough to damage out ships, their 14” in particular is a capable gun.



Action of 1/6/1925

US Baltic Fleet encounters 3 Russian BC plus escorts in route to bombard shore targets. Sinks one BB badly damaging the remainder, South Carolina is struck by a torpedo. In view of the risks of a night pursuit Baltic Fleet discontinues the action.

Action of 4/5/1925

USS Des Moines, USS Pueblo engage russian cruiser squadron near riga, 3 cl 2 dd sunk.



Action of 6/28/1925

US Baltic Fleet engages russian squadron off Hango. SCOUTDIV1 duels with an Ochakov class which was screening the rest of the russian BCs. BATDIV3 and BATDIV7 reach the action, deploy in line astern and open fire on the russian BCs which turn away to NE. One Imperatrista Elizaveta Petrovna class is struck and suffers a magazine explosion, followed 10 minutes later by a second of that class dieing in a similar fashion. Russian DDs launch a mass torpedo attack in an attempt to allow the remaining BCs to disengage, US ships forced to turn away. Resume chase, reengage and conduct running battle to NE encountering an additional 2 russian BCs. A Kynaz Potempkin class BC is disabled and finished off with torpedos, but the remaining two BCs are able to open up the distance after another mass torpedo attack by their escorts and escape into minefields. Final tally is 5 BCs, 2 CLs, and 9 DDs sunk. However, two of the Russian Navy’s most modern BCs escaped the action. Only light damage was taken by US ships. This was the first action in which an Independence class BC (44800 tons, 15-12” guns 12” belt 29 knots) participated in.Her novel design elements (very large low caliber main armament particularly) will not be repeated, while able to damage enemy BCs the 12” shells failed to make much of an impression. No russian ships were sunk outright by 12” fire, it is suggested a design study be undertaken to evaluate the possibility of reequipping her with 14-16” guns in dual turrets.



July 1925 North Dakota torpedoed by submarine and badly damaged.

Action of 7/20/1925

USS Des Moines encounters 2CL 3DD off Riga, sinks same.

Action 10/4/1925

CRUDIV5 encounters Russian light cruiser off Riga engaged and sunk.

Action of 1/27/1926

Baltic Fleet encounters 1 Russian BC while conducting bombardment operations. In this action the performance of USS United States (49200 tons, 12-16” guns 12”belt, 27 knots) provides an interesting counterpoint to the performance of the USS Independence, encountering an enemy BC at <5000 yards range USS United States’ first salvo disabled the enemy ship with the 2nd leaving her in a sinking condition, compared to Independence’s action where her 12” shells effects on target were unimpressive.

Action of 2/6/1926

USS United States, USS Ticonderoga encounter and sink Russian BC Navarin off Finland in night action.


March 1926 Peace.


Secretary of the Navy Chris19d Retires, after a naval career spanning over half a century, including 26 years as Secretary of the Navy it's finally time to retire to his family's farm in Texas and write his memoirs.

A couple in depth design studies and a general AAR to follow.

[chris19delta]

For the first of my design study posts I wanted to look at USS Independence, one of the few ships I would consider a true mistake.  She's based on a design philosophy I'd tried in a couple play throughs but never found the ships in a position where I could properly analyze their performance. 

USS Independence, A design Study.



Please ignore the extra displacement it's an artifact of having to open this in the editor.



USS Independence, 44800 tons, with 15 12” guns, a 12” belt and 29 knots, was a unique US battlecruiser completed in 1920. She was the product of divergent design theory which caught the eye and imagination of a handful of senators could ensure she was laid down. Her principle designer Monroe E. W. Case envisioned her as a “pure” battlecruiser one that was optimized for fighting the battlecruiser’s “rightful” enemy her own type and lesser cruisers. As such she was armed with 15 12” guns in 5 triple turrets (A-B-C-V-Y). Theoretically, the 12” Qual 1 gun was capable of penetrating the 8-10 inch belts common on enemy BCs in service when laid down in 1918 at combat ranges typical in the 1st Japanese War. In practice, even by 1920 when she was launched the 12” Qual 1 was showing its age as more 11 and 12 inch belted BCs were being launched, and by the Russian War in 1925 12” belts were common on modern battlecruisers of even second-rate powers like Russia and engagement ranges had grown leaving the 12" Qual 1 marginal even against 8-10" belts. Additionally, her protection scheme was a dramatic departure from standard American capital ship design with a curved armored deck, as opposed to the typical armored main deck common to all post 1900 designs.


Independence was intended to achieve fire superiority by volume of fire, leveraging the faster rate of fire per barrel of the 12” Qual 1 alongside a higher number of barrels. Theoretically, she could send a higher weight of shell down range than an 8 or 10 gun 16” ship. In practice however, as demonstrated in the 2nd Japanese War and in the Russian War, 16” AP was capable of rapidly destroying enemy capital ships, while 12” hits passed practically unnoticed by modern capital ships. Ships, especially battlecruisers, when struck by 16” shellfire exploded as the result of turrets, barbettes, shell rooms, or magazines being penetrated, or failing this suffered significant reductions in combat power, or being crippled after one to two on target salvos. This was just not the case with 12”, Independence fired at a Kynaz Potempkin a relatively old 19400 ton 6-13” 9” belt 24 knot BC, and even though the American 12” could penetrate the Kynaz Potempkin’s belt it took 45 minutes to disable her sufficiently so that she could be finished off with torpedoes. Even with modern projectiles the lesson learned by other designers, and ignored here, from the First Japanese War 12” hits do not sink capital ships proved to be true. While she was able to perform the task assigned her in her one action, that of limiting the Russian Squadron’s ability to maneuver, she was only marginally effective eliminating enemy battlecruisers.


In light of her poor performance in the Action of 6/28/1925 Adm Strauss requested and received permission to exchange Independence for a 16 inch battlecruiser, and received  two, United States and Ticonderoga. Upon return to the East Coast she was taken in hand by Boston Naval Yard for a comprehensive refit, landing her 12” triples in exchange for dual 15” guns. Despite this costly refit it is unlikely she will continue long in commission, as the only other 15” ships are the 1913-1914 vintage Michigans and Lexingtons, both of which are scheduled to be decommissioned as additional Texas class battleships and Ticonderoga class battlecruisers enter service.



Overall, with 2 refits, including a complete rebuild in 1925 she was an exceedingly poor value. In a perfect world the 1925 refit would never have been authorized, and Independence would have been struck from the navy list and converted to a gunnery training ship However, in a climate of concern over Royal Navy capital ship numbers decommissioning a relatively young BC was unacceptable politically. It is rumored that that the fight over the Independence's fate played a part in Secretary of the Navy Chris19d's decision to retire the following year.

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