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Post by Adseria on Feb 3, 2019 14:00:55 GMT -6
In RTW1, as far as I can tell, there is no way to tell what the weather will be like in a mission before you start the mission (in the "do you want to accept battle?" screen). I realise that this is realistic (there was (and is) no way to know for certain), but before major battles, navies presumably checked the forecast to ensure as far as they could that it would be favourable.
Therefore, I suggest a weather forecasting system in the game, which gives a prediction of what the weather in the scenario will be. Further, it would have a limited degree of accuracy (possibly with occasional research throughout the game increasing the accuracy), and could (rarely) even be completely wrong (saying it will be sunny when, in fact, there will be a thunderstorm), but this would be extremely rare, usually just being slightly wrong, or, occasionally, perfectly correct, as would be historically accurate.
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Weather
Feb 3, 2019 14:22:50 GMT -6
Post by dorn on Feb 3, 2019 14:22:50 GMT -6
In RTW1, as far as I can tell, there is no way to tell what the weather will be like in a mission before you start the mission (in the "do you want to accept battle?" screen). I realise that this is realistic (there was (and is) no way to know for certain), but before major battles, navies presumably checked the forecast to ensure as far as they could that it would be favourable.
Therefore, I suggest a weather forecasting system in the game, which gives a prediction of what the weather in the scenario will be. Further, it would have a limited degree of accuracy (possibly with occasional research throughout the game increasing the accuracy), and could (rarely) even be completely wrong (saying it will be sunny when, in fact, there will be a thunderstorm), but this would be extremely rare, usually just being slightly wrong, or, occasionally, perfectly correct, as would be historically accurate. It depends on situation. In Europe there were a lot of battles about convoys. Convoys sails several days which means that forecast was quite uncertain. You can take Battle of North Cape as an example or engagement between Scharnhorst and Gneisenau and Renown.
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Weather
Feb 3, 2019 14:37:22 GMT -6
Post by Adseria on Feb 3, 2019 14:37:22 GMT -6
In RTW1, as far as I can tell, there is no way to tell what the weather will be like in a mission before you start the mission (in the "do you want to accept battle?" screen). I realise that this is realistic (there was (and is) no way to know for certain), but before major battles, navies presumably checked the forecast to ensure as far as they could that it would be favourable.
Therefore, I suggest a weather forecasting system in the game, which gives a prediction of what the weather in the scenario will be. Further, it would have a limited degree of accuracy (possibly with occasional research throughout the game increasing the accuracy), and could (rarely) even be completely wrong (saying it will be sunny when, in fact, there will be a thunderstorm), but this would be extremely rare, usually just being slightly wrong, or, occasionally, perfectly correct, as would be historically accurate. It depends on situation. In Europe there were a lot of battles about convoys. Convoys sails several days which means that forecast was quite uncertain. You can take Battle of North Cape as an example or engagement between Scharnhorst and Gneisenau and Renown. Yes, but battles in the game don't.
Either way, you could just base it on what the weather will be like at the start of the scenario; I've never seen the weather change much during a scenario anyway, beyond it going from slightly cloudy and calm wind to light rain and calm wind, and with the randomisation that I suggested, they'd be nearly the same thing anyway.
In particular, it could be fun with aircraft; a side that has air superiority wouldn't want to engage in bad weather, for example. Obviously, the AI would have to take the weather into account too.
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Feb 3, 2019 15:16:07 GMT -6
I think this is an excellent suggestion Adseria, and have recommended it internally- obviously a weather forecast on the Accept/Don't Accept screen shouldn't be fool-proof, but at a certain point the player should reasonably be expected to include the likely weather in their decision.
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Weather
Feb 3, 2019 20:31:24 GMT -6
Post by Adseria on Feb 3, 2019 20:31:24 GMT -6
I think this is an excellent suggestion Adseria , and have recommended it internally- obviously a weather forecast on the Accept/Don't Accept screen shouldn't be fool-proof, but at a certain point the player should reasonably be expected to include the likely weather in their decision. Wait, someone actually agreed with something I said? Am I dreaming?
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Post by alexbrunius on Feb 4, 2019 4:14:39 GMT -6
I think this is an excellent suggestion Adseria , and have recommended it internally- obviously a weather forecast on the Accept/Don't Accept screen shouldn't be fool-proof, but at a certain point the player should reasonably be expected to include the likely weather in their decision. Maybe having bases in the region could give you a small advantage in accuracy of forecast? Something like "cloud-front moving in from the north" could have serious tactical implications for a Carrier battle depending on what the mission is and where your start out. Having more advanced weather reports if you have endgame radars on the ships/aircraft in the area could also be a cool and historical touch, as weather radars were developed after WW2 by radar operators having noticed how they got radar returns from precipitation.
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Post by noshurviverse on Feb 4, 2019 5:29:25 GMT -6
Yes, but battles in the game don't. I'd argue that for certain defensive battles being given the weather is inappropriate. While, for example, you as the player know that turn 0 represents the start of a Convoy Defense, to your ship crew it's probably just another day as part of an escort force. Similarly, for defending a bombardment target, you probably wouldn't know for certain that your opponent has to hit the target within the given timeframe.
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Post by orkel on Feb 4, 2019 6:13:14 GMT -6
I think this is an excellent suggestion Adseria , and have recommended it internally- obviously a weather forecast on the Accept/Don't Accept screen shouldn't be fool-proof, but at a certain point the player should reasonably be expected to include the likely weather in their decision. Maybe having bases in the region could give you a small advantage in accuracy of forecast? Something like "cloud-front moving in from the north" could have serious tactical implications for a Carrier battle depending on what the mission is and where your start out. Having more advanced weather reports if you have endgame radars on the ships/aircraft in the area could also be a cool and historical touch, as weather radars were developed after WW2 by radar operators having noticed how they got radar returns from precipitation. I think weather predictions should stay a somewhat simplified affair.
Add a research line that improves its accuracy. And it will give you a rough forecast for each battle. That's all that's needed.
No need for base positions to matter, or ship equipment to matter.
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Weather
Feb 4, 2019 10:51:42 GMT -6
Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 4, 2019 10:51:42 GMT -6
I would suggest allowing the player to develop a weather reconnaissance squadron with appropriately equipped aircraft. Ocean weather vessels could be included and should be. You could also add to land based construction, land based weather stations to improve a simplified weather report for the game. In other words, the game would start with a simplified weather report then the player could add weather stations, weather ships and weather reconnaissance aircraft to improve his ability to make a tactical or operational decision about a mission or campaign.
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Weather
Feb 4, 2019 13:52:39 GMT -6
Post by axe99 on Feb 4, 2019 13:52:39 GMT -6
I think this is an excellent suggestion Adseria , and have recommended it internally- obviously a weather forecast on the Accept/Don't Accept screen shouldn't be fool-proof, but at a certain point the player should reasonably be expected to include the likely weather in their decision. Wait, someone actually agreed with something I said? Am I dreaming? It's a good idea (well, imo, but the only o I have) . Weather was so important to operations that Germany actually used some of it's submarines on 'weather patrol' in WW2 - basically tracking the weather - so definitely a thing (and definitely not just a German thing). I like the idea a lot - although agree that the interaction with the player (but not necessarily the calculation - Alex mentions a lot of interesting ideas) should be kept nice and simple (so I'm not suggesting players should have to assign sea and air forces to meteorological duties), and the reliability of forecasting should be appropriate for the period.
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Weather
Feb 4, 2019 16:30:32 GMT -6
Post by Adseria on Feb 4, 2019 16:30:32 GMT -6
I would suggest allowing the player to develop a weather reconnaissance squadron with appropriately equipped aircraft. Ocean weather vessels could be included and should be. You could also add to land based construction, land based weather stations to improve a simplified weather report for the game. In other words, the game would start with a simplified weather report then the player could add weather stations, weather ships and weather reconnaissance aircraft to improve his ability to make a tactical or operational decision about a mission or campaign. I feel like this doesn't really fit with the game's heavy focus on warfare. You don't even have to make fleet auxiliary ships like oilers or repair ships in the game, so why would you have to build weather ships?
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Feb 4, 2019 16:42:23 GMT -6
Post by Adseria on Feb 4, 2019 16:42:23 GMT -6
Yes, but battles in the game don't. I'd argue that for certain defensive battles being given the weather is inappropriate. While, for example, you as the player know that turn 0 represents the start of a Convoy Defense, to your ship crew it's probably just another day as part of an escort force. Similarly, for defending a bombardment target, you probably wouldn't know for certain that your opponent has to hit the target within the given timeframe. And I'd argue that, if a significant naval force has been deployed to the area, the admiralty (or equivalent) must know that an attack is imminent. Therefore, they'd probably have checked the weather beforehand. Perhaps it could be less accurate for the defender, though, to simulate the fact that the relevant information was gathered at short notice.
In terms of a convoy defence mission, the two sides usually seem to have similar strength (at least in RTW1). This, again, suggests that the defenders are forewarned (particularly given that commerce raiding is a separate thing entirely, and presumably accounts for the existing minesweepers/corvettes/destroyers assigned to convoy escort duties (which I assume are taken from ships assigned to coastal patrol duties)). In addition, if you look at the starting dispositions of the escort force (the force under the player's control), you'll notice that, while they start in the same location as the convoy, they're usually travelling in a different direction. This suggests that they know that an attack is imminent, particularly considering that the escort force is usually travelling almost directly towards the attacking force at a speed much higher than most merchantmen of the period could manage, once again implying that the defenders are forewarned.
And finally, remember that "unexpected battle" is a separate battle type, implying that any battle that isn't an "unexpected battle" is one that was expected, and planned for, and that planning would presumably include checking the weather.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 4, 2019 17:11:03 GMT -6
Meteorology was very important in war (it still is, don't believe the "all weather" in an aircraft definition), but it can add to the complexity. Why not add the complexity like being able to use your aircraft for weather reconnaissance, build weather ships, and build weather stations in different locations. The game will do the behind scenes interpretation and provide you with the increased or decreased information. The key will be a check box, you check it, and you get to do some added work in the weather game, no check and the game does it all.
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Weather
Feb 4, 2019 17:13:03 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by mycophobia on Feb 4, 2019 17:13:03 GMT -6
I would suggest allowing the player to develop a weather reconnaissance squadron with appropriately equipped aircraft. Ocean weather vessels could be included and should be. You could also add to land based construction, land based weather stations to improve a simplified weather report for the game. In other words, the game would start with a simplified weather report then the player could add weather stations, weather ships and weather reconnaissance aircraft to improve his ability to make a tactical or operational decision about a mission or campaign. I feel like this doesn't really fit with the game's heavy focus on warfare. You don't even have to make fleet auxiliary ships like oilers or repair ships in the game, so why would you have to build weather ships? You don’t have to make it a highly detailed management process. Can just be several check box under doctrine like how we have training right now, which charges a flat fee based on your territory. (E.g weather station network, weather aircraft service,) or alternatively just allow the construction of weather stations like the abstract “base size” we have now. Given the prevalence of aircraft in rtw2, knowing the weather ahead of time can be crucial and worth investing into.
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Weather
Feb 4, 2019 17:29:04 GMT -6
Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 4, 2019 17:29:04 GMT -6
The weather you will encounter, depends on geography, which I am certain you understand. If you are in the Mediterranean, most of the climates are BSK type climates, which generally occurs on the Western side of the continents between the latitudes of 30 degrees and 45 degrees, both above and below the equator. They have dry summers, with temperatures about 71.6 degrees F Winters are cool but not hot. Rain generally is between 9-12 inches in the winter around December, January and February.
Now, if you go around the world and examine the North Atlantic, Baltic Sea and Arctic Ocean you see a different climate. If you go below 30 degrees such as the area around the South Pacific this is a tropical and has certain temperature and moisture averages. There are microclimates in all of these areas based on mountains etc. Topography will play a big part and the ocean currents. If you are in the Northern latitudes around Norway, you will have a warm current which is a result of the Gulf Stream. Ocean currents will change the climate.
Surface winds and temperature are important, but your really important readings are around 500 mb. or 18,000 feet. This is why weather reconnaissance is important.
I hope that a weather mod can be developed and inserted, it could add some modicum of reality to the game. We've only been recording temperature, barometric pressure, relative humidity, wind speed and direction for about 200 years on a regular basis. In the days of sail, it was recorded in the ships logs. So, starting in 1900, weather reporting should improve over the game time.
Just some of my thoughts.
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